Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and Key Management Service (KMS)

On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 10:16 PM Joe Conway <mail(at)joeconway(dot)com> wrote:
>
> On 7/9/19 8:39 AM, Ryan Lambert wrote:
> > Hi Thomas,
> >
> >> CBC mode does require
> >> random nonces, other modes may be fine with even sequences as long as
> >> the values are not reused.
> >
> > I disagree that CBC mode requires random nonces, at least based on what
> > NIST has published. They only require that the IV (not the nonce) must
> > be unpredictable per [1]:
> >
> > " For the CBC and CFB modes, the IVs must be unpredictable."
> >
> > The unpredictable IV can be generated from a non-random nonce including
> > a counter:
> >
> > "There are two recommended methods for generating unpredictable IVs. The
> > first method is to apply the forward cipher function, under the same key
> > that is used for the encryption of the plaintext, to a nonce. The nonce
> > must be a data block that is unique to each execution of the encryption
> > operation. For example, the nonce may be a counter, as described in
> > Appendix B, or a message number."
> >
> > [1] https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/Legacy/SP/nistspecialpublication800-38a.pdf
>
>
> The terms nonce and IV are often used more-or-less interchangeably, and
> it is important to be clear when we are talking about an IV specifically
> - an IV is a specific type of nonce. Nonce means "number used once".
> i.e. unique, whereas an IV (for CBC use anyway) should be unique and
> random but not necessarily kept secret.

FWIW, it seems that predictable IVs can sometimes be harmful. See

https://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/3499/why-cant-the-iv-be-predictable-when-its-said-it-doesnt-need-to-be-a-secret

Regards,

--
Masahiko Sawada
NIPPON TELEGRAPH AND TELEPHONE CORPORATION
NTT Open Source Software Center