Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and Key Management Service (KMS)

On 7/10/19 2:40 AM, Masahiko Sawada wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 10:16 PM Joe Conway <mail(at)joeconway(dot)com> wrote:
>>
>> On 7/9/19 8:39 AM, Ryan Lambert wrote:
>> > Hi Thomas,
>> >
>> >> CBC mode does require
>> >> random nonces, other modes may be fine with even sequences as long as
>> >> the values are not reused.
>> >
>> > I disagree that CBC mode requires random nonces, at least based on what
>> > NIST has published. They only require that the IV (not the nonce) must
>> > be unpredictable per [1]:
>> >
>> > " For the CBC and CFB modes, the IVs must be unpredictable."
>> >
>> > The unpredictable IV can be generated from a non-random nonce including
>> > a counter:
>> >
>> > "There are two recommended methods for generating unpredictable IVs. The
>> > first method is to apply the forward cipher function, under the same key
>> > that is used for the encryption of the plaintext, to a nonce. The nonce
>> > must be a data block that is unique to each execution of the encryption
>> > operation. For example, the nonce may be a counter, as described in
>> > Appendix B, or a message number."
>> >
>> > [1] https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/Legacy/SP/nistspecialpublication800-38a.pdf
>>
>>
>> The terms nonce and IV are often used more-or-less interchangeably, and
>> it is important to be clear when we are talking about an IV specifically
>> - an IV is a specific type of nonce. Nonce means "number used once".
>> i.e. unique, whereas an IV (for CBC use anyway) should be unique and
>> random but not necessarily kept secret.
>
> FWIW, it seems that predictable IVs can sometimes be harmful. See

Yes, for CBC as I said above "IV ... should be unique and random but not
necessarily kept secret". You can argue if the word "random" should read
"unpredictable" instead, but that was the intention.

Joe

--
Crunchy Data - http://crunchydata.com
PostgreSQL Support for Secure Enterprises
Consulting, Training, & Open Source Development