Re: Unclear problem reports

On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 12:58 AM Noah Misch <noah(at)leadboat(dot)com> wrote:
>
> On Sun, Feb 06, 2022 at 12:41:52AM +0100, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> > On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 12:02 AM Noah Misch <noah(at)leadboat(dot)com> wrote:
> > > On Fri, Feb 04, 2022 at 01:36:46PM -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 07:21:19PM -0700, David G. Johnston wrote:
> > > > > Have pg_lister queue up a check for, say, two or three days after the bug
> > > > > reporting form is filled out. If the report hasn't been responded to by
> > > > > someone other than the OP send out a reply that basically says:
> > > > >
> > > > > We're sorry your message hasn't yet attracted a response. If your report falls
> > > > > into the category of "tech support for a malfunctioning server", and this
> > > > > includes error messages that are difficult or impossible to replicate in a
> > > > > development environment (maybe give some examples), you may wish to consider
> > > > > eliciting paid professional help. Please see this page on our website for a
> > > > > directory of companies that provide such services. The PostgreSQL Core Project
> > > > > itself refrains from making recommendations since many, if not all, of these
> > > > > companies contribute back to the project in order to keep it both free and open
> > > > > source.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, that is an idea. I have canned email responses for common issues
> > > > like PGAdmin questions on the bugs list, but for these cases, I don't
> > > > know if someone might actually know the answer, and I don't know how
> > > > long to wait for an answer. Should we be going the other way and state
> > > > on the bugs submission page, https://www.postgresql.org/account/submitbug/:
> > > >
> > > > If you are having a serious problem with the software and do not
> > > > receive a reply, consider additional support channels, including
> > > > professional support (https://www.postgresql.org/support/).
> > >
> > > https://www.postgresql.org/account/submitbug/ does say to "ensure you have
> > > read" https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/bug-reporting.html, which says,
> > > "If you need help immediately, consider obtaining a commercial support
> > > contract." Hence, this expands on an existing message and makes it more
> > > prominent. I think that's reasonable, though I'm not sure it's a net win.
> > > One could also edit the page that appears after submitting a bug. Editing a
> > > web page is superior to using canned email responses, for two reasons:
> > >
> > > - Canned responses are noise to every list reader other than the OP.
> > > - Canned responses make the list feel like a sales funnel rather than a normal
> > > free software mailing list.
> >
> > All bug reports posted through the bug form gets moderated before
> > they're passed through. Moderators also have access to a set of
> > pre-defined canned responses (such as the example of where they should
> > go to report pgadmin bugs). It will also catch posts made directly to
> > -bugs by people who are not subscribed, but people who are subscribed
> > will not have their posts moderated by default.
> >
> > If we're talking about people submitting bug reports, åperhaps a lot
> > can be done with (1) a couple of more such responses and (2) more
> > clear instructions fo the moderators of when they are supposed to use
> > them.
> >
> > Error on the side of letting them through is probably always the best
> > choice, but if it's clear that it can be better handled by a canned
> > response, we do have an actual system for that.
>
> I was referring to David G. Johnston's proposal to send canned email responses
> when a thread (presumably containing a not-obviously-unreasonable PostgreSQL
> question or report) gets no replies in N days. The proposed email directed
> the user toward paid professional services. Sending such a message at
> moderation time would solve the noise problem, but it would make the "sales
> funnel" problem worse. (Also, I figure moderators won't know at moderation
> time which messages will get zero replies.) For which part of $SUBJECT did
> you envision using new moderator responses?

It depends. For some of them it would, and I believe they are used for
that as well. But yes, it will only be able to replace those cases
where people send a canned response today ("report pgadmin bugs over
here instead", "you need to talk to your cloud vendor" and things like
that). It won't help for anything more advanced than that.

--
Magnus Hagander
Me: https://www.hagander.net/
Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/