Re: the PostgreSQL Elephant

[Somewhat regretting this tempest in a teacup]
On Monday 12 July 2004 16:51, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> The logo was originally designed to go onto the PostgreSQL Merchandise, as
> the Diamond one just didn't print ... to be honest, I have no clue *when*
> it was first used for other, either as Inc logo, or Project, but it has
> been in use for >4 years now, and is well known as being the PostgreSQL
> logo ...

Ok. Josh, what would it take to make you comfortable with PostgreSQL Inc and
PostgreSQL the project sharing a logo? What if we added an outline diamond?
(but allow the BEH both with and without the diamond, so that existing
investment is not wasted.

Like I said before, whether I like the logo or not is immaterial; I don't like
the BEH, but, then again I don't like Tux either, nor do I like the BSD
daemon (in fact, I have recommended Linux over BSD a few times to religious
organizations that had heard about BSD and wanted to use it, but were very
uncomfortable with having a demon in their servers (yes, I know, ridiculous,
but The Customer Is Always Right (when they are your customer and you need
the cash!))). I've even had people question my having the 'Demon Book' on my
shelves (for those who don't get the reference, that is 'The design and
implementation of the 4.3BSD operating system' which is one of the Standard
Books to read and to have on your shelf....). Neither the Linux kernel nor
BSD are changing their logos any time soon, and in fact it would be bad for
both to even attempt to do so.

To be honest, I was quite disappointed to see slonik leave the website. The
twin ideas of 'The Elephant Never Forgets' and 'Diamonds are forever' were
just very cool together (and the layers under that, that diamond is the
hardest substance known to man, is the most organized substance (a perfect
diamond, due to the regular lattice of carbon atoms, would technically be a
single molecule, although it's more of a polymer), is the most desireable
substance, etc. And the elephant is one of the most sought after big-game
anaimals, and is one of the hardest to kill (along with Cape buffalo)). And
it _was_ on the Official Website of the project; and the BEH was on the
PgSQL, Inc site. But it truly does not print well, particularly on t-shirts,
as Marc has already said.

Unfortunately, and while IANAL, I think this is true, neither PgSQL Inc nor
PostgreSQL the project can now get trademark on the BEH since both have been
using it for so long. Of course, PostgreSQL the project isn't a legal
entity, and so it really can't have a 'trademark' per se.

But, I would not want to cast confusion, and while I do not agree with Peter's
statement that the case is closed, I do agree with his basic sentiment, that
there is already significant mindshare invested in the BEH.

So, for the sake of the project, how can we make this 'OK' for PostgreSQL the
project and PostgreSQL, Inc, to be using the same graphic? Does PostgreSQL
Inc have a trademark on it? If not, can they get it trademarked and then
write specific permission for the project to use it?

I understand Josh's point about the potential confusion of the project
'endorsing' PostgreSQL Inc. But does such confusion really exist? (And only
someone outside the developer circle can answer that; ask a Doc Searls or Don
Marti or anyone outside the PostgreSQL Global Development Group who is
knowledgable about PostgreSQL the project).

I, Peter, Marc, Jan, and basically everyone else on this list are too close to
the project to get an unbiased view.
--
Lamar Owen
Director of Information Technology
Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute
1 PARI Drive
Rosman, NC 28772
(828)862-5554
www.pari.edu