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Re: Rant to the guiding lights of Postgres

From: "Marc G(dot) Fournier" <scrappy(at)postgresql(dot)org>
To: Paul Smith <iconpart(at)hotmail(dot)com>
Cc: pgsql-advocacy(at)postgresql(dot)org
Subject: Re: Rant to the guiding lights of Postgres
Date: 2004-02-12 18:33:58
Message-ID: (view raw, whole thread or download thread mbox)
Lists: pgsql-advocacy
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Paul Smith wrote:

> I am evaluating Postgres for an existing Java application. I already have
> the app running with Oracle ($$$) and Sybase (oooold!) and I am trying to
> convince my management that it is worth going fully open source. (We already
> use Java, JBoss, Eclipse etc.) But the problem I am having, and it seems I
> am not alone, is the absence of Client support in postgres. I can fully
> understand why the db server is Linux/Unix as this covers the majority of
> servers used for enterprise applications, but I can not understand the
> abscence of platform support for the client software. Where is the Mac psql,
> or the Win XP version of pg_dumpall? Clients do not use Linux boxes, they
> use Wintel or Mac boxes. You do not have to like it, but ignoring them
> doesn't make them go away.
> I do not need the fancy GUI interfaces like PGExplorer, they are nice, and
> handy to port my scripts and test my stored procedures, but I can't use them
> to automate the creation of my database.
> Sybase had iSQL for scripts and bcp for data loading. Oracle had sqlplus and
> sqlldr. These are the basic client side tools required to automate the setup
> and maintence of a non-trival database, and they are available on almost any
> platform you care to name.
> And before anybody suggests I use Cygwin, I have used Cygwin, I do not like
> it (mild understatement) and nor am I prepared to learn Tcl just to run a
> script that already works. Run a script to load a telnet session to run a
> script to run my script? Be serious.
> Please, guys. Open source is the way to go. We need to convince accountants
> that it is the sensible, safe and cheap way to develop software. But that
> means we have to do our jobs! When we write client-server systems, write the
> clients as well as the servers.
> Can it really be that difficult to write a native mode psql? Have you
> considered doing it in Java?

Already being worked on, and we hope to have this ready for 7.5 ...

Marc G. Fournier           Hub.Org Networking Services (
Email: scrappy(at)hub(dot)org           Yahoo!: yscrappy              ICQ: 7615664

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