Re: Looking for Suggestion on Learning

On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 11:14 AM, ray joseph <ray(at)aarden(dot)us> wrote:

> Matt,
>
>
>
> Thank you for your insightful view. I do not have a design for any of my
> design opportunities. This is one reason I was looking for a design tool.
> I have many work processes that are inter related, generated by different
> groups that must transcribe data from each others artifacts. I do have
> Visio but I have never used it for this purpose. Since one of my objectives
> is to learn about db design, maybe I can find some training material using
> Visio. I wonder if Visio will generate SQL. If I recall, only the
> enterprise version of Visio produces SQL, so I would like to find a FOS tool
> for this. A tool and associated tutorial would be great.
>
>
>
As was mentioned earlier and pencil and paper is a great tool to start with.
The first several drafts of my database were done with graph paper and a
pencil. I find it much quicker in the beginning to do it this way then use
a computer and make changes to it through a program. When you get a design
almost nearly complete then I would recomend a computer program. If you go
the route of Viso there are templates for databases built in so this may
save you some time. As far as code generation goes I have no idea as I
prefer to do all my generation by hand.

> BTW, I do use Notepad++. I have used gnome.org/dia, but I find it much
> weaker than Visio. I did not realize that PHP admin required a web server,
> but I have recently installed Apache for SVN. I looked at PHP admin even
> though my preference is Python. I have also looked at Maestro but have had
> a similar problem with tutorials.
>

PHP is a server side language and thus is usually not run from the
commandline like ruby or python, it is generally run through a web server
such as apache or IIS.

>
>
> Thank you for the link to the ‘docs’ site. I have been there many times
> over the past couple of years but now I see it in a new light (I’m slow).
>
>
>
When you hand code SQL with Notepad++, how do you launch the code?
>
>
There are several ways to launch the code. I use the PHPPGAdmin and load
the file into the GUI and launch it that way. I haven't really gotten that
far into my development yet where I need to do this on a large scale, for
now that method works for me. I am sure there are other ways to do it
through the PG commandline interface.

>
>
> I really appreciate your efforts.
>
>
>
> ray
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* urlugal(at)gmail(dot)com [mailto:urlugal(at)gmail(dot)com] *On Behalf Of *Matt
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:19 PM
> *To:* ray joseph
> *Subject:* Re: [GENERAL] Looking for Suggestion on Learning
>
>
>
> I too am in a similar situation. My company currently uses M$ Access and
> the solution is no longer viable and needs to be dealt with. Form what I
> have been reading and learning the last few weeks trying to compare Access
> and PG is like comparing a go-kart and a race car. They both do the same
> thing more or less but the race car is capable of much more but also needs
> more attention. I am assuming that you already have a structural design for
> your database, tables, keys etc. If not this is a good place to start and
> is where I am currently at in my project.
>
> On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 9:22 PM, ray joseph <ray(at)aarden(dot)us> wrote:
>
>
> > On Saturday, February 05, 2011 9:30:13 am ray wrote:
> > > I have built a few databases with MS Access and I would like to learn
> > > how to use pgsql. I have found some examples but they have been too
> > > complex to follow or to abstract with no specific details.
>
>
>
> Use the online documentation at http://www.postgresql.org/docs/ for a
> basic tutorial on how to create tables, queries, and the like. The docs go
> much further in detail then that but this is a good place to start. It
> gives real examples of working with tables that are easy to follow and
> it doesn't require previous knowledge.
>
>
>
> > >
> > > I would like to find a simple example that would take me from an open
> > > source design tool to a simple method to implement the design.
>
>
>
> What do you mean by a design tool? Are you looking for a program to help
> you map out the table structure of your db? Are you looking for a GUI to
> access your db and modify it? I am using Viso to create my maps at work
> right now but you may want to check out Dia http://projects.gnome.org/dia/,
> it is a good piece of software but I haven't used it for this purpose yet.
> When you install PG it comes with the GUI PGAdmin that gives you basic
> control over some aspects of your db and allows you to implement various
> things. I am using PHPAdmin myself, as this project is entirely based on
> the net and I also have a fondness for php. This can be acquired through
> the stackbuilder app included with the single file installer for PG. It
> does require you to run a webserver though, so this may not be the route you
> wish to take. As far as building the db itself I hand code the SQL in
> notepad++ http://notepad-plus-plus.org/. I am not a big fan of IDE's for
> small scale or single file projects so this editor is great. It provides a
> tabbed interface and has syntax highlighting for many of the
> most common languages and is fairly lightweight.
>
>
>
> > >
> > > I would like to find a simple guide, tutorial or example and will
> > > appreciate any help.
>
>
>
> Being more specific as to what you are looking to learn may help people to
> suggest the right guide for you. I have had great luck here in the last few
> weeks with recommended books and articles.
>
>
>
> > >
> > > ray
> >
> > It will be difficult to find a simple drop in replacement for what you
> had
> > with
> > Access. The closest thing I can think of is OpenOffice/LibreOffice Base
> > (http://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Database_1) and that is not as well
> > integrated. Most Open Source development tend to use chains of tools,
> > admin/creation --> driver/middle layer --> GUI design, with each aspect
> > handled by a different program. I tend to handle admin/creation with text
> > files run through psql. I work with Python so my database driver is
>
> > psycopg2. This n turn gets used by a framework. For desktop apps I use
>
> > Dabo > (http://dabodev.com/).
> > Since the final output is determined by mix and match it is hard to find
> a
> > 1-2-3 tutorial. My suggestion is to make a list of your needs and work
> > bck from there:
> >
> > 1) What OS(s) do I want to deploy on?
> > 2) What programming language(s) do I want to work with?
> > 3) Where do I want to deploy, desktop/Web?
> > 4) What do I want to build, simple SOHO apps .... enterprise apps?
> >
> > With answers to these questions it would be possible to narrow the field
> a
> > bit. Unfortunately, it is one of those good news/bad news situations.
> > Good news, Open Source is about a variety of choices. Bad news, Open
> > Source is about a variety of choices.
> >
> > --
> > Adrian Klaver
> > adrian(dot)klaver(at)gmail(dot)com
>
> Adrian,
>
> Thank you for the clarifications. I would like to address the guiding
> questions you presented:
>
> 1) What OS(s) do I want to deploy on? Windows, right now XP.
> 2) What programming language(s) do I want to work with? Python.
> 3) Where do I want to deploy, desktop/Web? Desktop at first.
> 4) What do I want to build, simple SOHO apps .... enterprise apps? SOHO
> at
> first.
>
> My responses represent what I expect a learning path to take. Although I
> will probably not be programming for web or enterprise, what I build may be
> a prototype for such. I am not looking for the tools to build the big
> apps,
> I just want to learn the basics, or more important right now, the simple.
>
> Please help me understand what you mean by " I tend to handle
> admin/creation
>
> with text files run through psql."
>
> This is the commandline shell that allows you to interact with the
> database. It is from here that you are able to create tables, views, and
> submit queries, among other things. It is akin to the Windows command
> prompt, although instead of giving commands to windows you are giving them
> to PG.
>
>
>
> I looked at Dabo and it looks like it is for developing applications. Is
> there a tool for designing a database?
>
>
>
> Please be specific, do you mean creating a logical design of the structure
> or do you mean implementing the design such as creating tables and inserting
> data.
>
>
> Ray
>
>
>
>
> --
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