Re: How to get SE-PostgreSQL acceptable

From:	Josh Berkus <josh(at)agliodbs(dot)com>
To:	Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>
Cc:	Joshua Brindle <method(at)manicmethod(dot)com>, Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>, Gregory Stark <stark(at)enterprisedb(dot)com>, KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>, Stephen Frost <sfrost(at)snowman(dot)net>, Peter Eisentraut <peter_e(at)gmx(dot)net>, KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>, PG Hackers <pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org>
Subject:	Re: How to get SE-PostgreSQL acceptable
Date:	2009-01-30 21:39:57
Message-ID:	498373AD.2090808@agliodbs.com
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Thread:	2009-01-28 10:18:16 from Peter Eisentraut <peter_e(at)gmx(dot)net>  2009-01-28 13:28:11 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>   2009-01-28 14:02:14 from Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com>    2009-01-28 14:41:49 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>     2009-01-28 14:50:54 from Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com>      2009-01-28 15:31:35 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>   2009-01-28 14:30:55 from Stephen Frost <sfrost(at)snowman(dot)net>    2009-01-28 14:36:12 from Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com>    2009-01-28 15:13:49 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>     2009-01-28 15:20:19 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>     2009-01-28 15:56:18 from Joshua Brindle <method(at)manicmethod(dot)com>      2009-01-28 18:20:09 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>       2009-01-28 18:49:21 from Joshua Brindle <method(at)manicmethod(dot)com>        2009-01-28 19:02:37 from Gregory Stark <stark(at)enterprisedb(dot)com>         2009-01-28 19:38:36 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>          2009-01-29 05:03:18 from Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>           2009-01-29 05:29:43 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>            2009-01-29 05:34:36 from Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>           2009-01-29 14:14:29 from Joshua Brindle <method(at)manicmethod(dot)com>            2009-01-30 21:34:46 from Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>             2009-01-30 21:39:57 from Josh Berkus <josh(at)agliodbs(dot)com>              2009-01-30 21:41:22 from Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>               2009-01-30 22:02:35 from Josh Berkus <josh(at)agliodbs(dot)com>                2009-01-30 22:19:16 from Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>                 2009-01-30 22:30:16 from Ron Mayer <rm_pg(at)cheapcomplexdevices(dot)com>                 2009-01-30 22:37:17 from Josh Berkus <josh(at)agliodbs(dot)com>                  2009-01-30 22:38:46 from Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>                  2009-01-30 23:00:24 from Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com>            2009-01-30 22:43:56 from Josh Berkus <josh(at)agliodbs(dot)com>             2009-01-30 23:06:12 from Andrew Dunstan <andrew(at)dunslane(dot)net>              2009-01-30 23:13:04 from Stephen Frost <sfrost(at)snowman(dot)net>              2009-01-31 00:28:31 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>               2009-01-31 01:28:24 from Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>                2009-01-31 01:43:53 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>                 2009-01-31 02:52:57 from Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>                  2009-01-31 05:09:58 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>                   2009-01-31 08:22:20 from Stephen Frost <sfrost(at)snowman(dot)net>                    2009-01-31 10:25:16 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>                     2009-01-31 13:32:59 from Stephen Frost <sfrost(at)snowman(dot)net>                      2009-01-31 14:09:47 from Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com>                       2009-01-31 14:22:54 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>                        2009-01-31 16:42:17 from Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com>                         2009-02-01 02:46:03 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>                          2009-02-01 02:57:02 from Stephen Frost <sfrost(at)snowman(dot)net>                          2009-02-01 03:01:40 from Andrew Dunstan <andrew(at)dunslane(dot)net>                           2009-02-01 03:08:06 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>                            2009-02-01 11:10:05 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>                             2009-02-01 13:36:28 from Stephen Frost <sfrost(at)snowman(dot)net>                          2009-02-07 15:24:46 from Alvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com>                           2009-02-09 17:27:05 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>                            2009-02-09 17:44:24 from Alvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com>                         2009-02-02 17:42:59 from Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>                          2009-02-03 00:27:39 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                           2009-02-03 00:47:42 from Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>                            2009-02-03 01:28:22 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                            2009-02-03 02:15:22 from Joshua Brindle <method(at)manicmethod(dot)com>                             2009-02-03 03:00:10 from Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>                              2009-02-03 04:09:55 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                               2009-02-03 05:55:46 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                2009-02-06 05:16:23 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                 2009-02-10 01:53:41 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                  2009-02-13 01:15:47 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                   2009-02-13 14:07:53 from Joshua Brindle <method(at)manicmethod(dot)com>                                    2009-02-13 16:24:46 from Jaime Casanova <jcasanov(at)systemguards(dot)com(dot)ec>                                     2009-02-14 01:32:22 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>                                      2009-02-14 05:03:42 from Jaime Casanova <jcasanov(at)systemguards(dot)com(dot)ec>                                       2009-02-14 05:46:49 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>                                        2009-02-14 14:01:38 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>                                        2009-02-15 00:16:16 from Jaime Casanova <jcasanov(at)systemguards(dot)com(dot)ec>                                         2009-02-19 21:35:43 from Jaime Casanova <jcasanov(at)systemguards(dot)com(dot)ec>                                        2009-02-27 21:53:51 from Jaime Casanova <jcasanov(at)systemguards(dot)com(dot)ec> 📎                                         2009-02-27 22:06:35 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>                                          2009-02-27 22:59:05 from Jaime Casanova <jcasanov(at)systemguards(dot)com(dot)ec>                                  2009-02-22 08:29:46 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>                                   2009-02-24 09:03:00 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                    2009-02-26 04:04:40 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                     2009-02-26 06:23:17 from Jaime Casanova <jcasanov(at)systemguards(dot)com(dot)ec>                                      2009-02-26 06:26:09 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                       2009-02-26 06:46:54 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                        2009-02-26 06:56:19 from Jaime Casanova <jcasanov(at)systemguards(dot)com(dot)ec>                                     2009-03-03 07:39:30 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                      2009-03-04 20:28:02 from Heikki Linnakangas <heikki(dot)linnakangas(at)enterprisedb(dot)com>                                       2009-03-05 01:01:14 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                        2009-03-05 07:24:27 from Heikki Linnakangas <heikki(dot)linnakangas(at)enterprisedb(dot)com>                                         2009-03-05 08:38:00 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                        2009-03-05 13:53:13 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>                                         2009-03-06 10:25:13 from Heikki Linnakangas <heikki(dot)linnakangas(at)enterprisedb(dot)com>                                          2009-03-09 06:52:40 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                           2009-03-09 09:01:18 from Heikki Linnakangas <heikki(dot)linnakangas(at)enterprisedb(dot)com>                                            2009-03-09 09:16:05 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                           2009-03-09 09:11:45 from Heikki Linnakangas <heikki(dot)linnakangas(at)enterprisedb(dot)com>                                            2009-03-09 14:55:46 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>                                             2009-03-09 17:25:30 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>                                              2009-03-09 19:00:46 from Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com>                                               2009-03-09 20:04:59 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>                                                2009-03-09 20:22:12 from Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com>                                                 2009-03-09 20:39:24 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>                                                  2009-03-09 23:09:15 from Hannu Krosing <hannu(at)2ndQuadrant(dot)com>                                                   2009-03-09 23:45:45 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>                                                    2009-03-09 23:57:14 from "Joshua D(dot) Drake" <jd(at)commandprompt(dot)com>                                                     2009-03-10 00:05:30 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>                                                      2009-03-10 00:22:39 from "Joshua D(dot) Drake" <jd(at)commandprompt(dot)com>                                                       2009-03-10 00:31:11 from Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>                                                        2009-03-10 00:45:36 from "Joshua D(dot) Drake" <jd(at)commandprompt(dot)com>                                                       2009-03-10 00:55:34 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>                                                        2009-03-10 01:33:51 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                                        2009-03-10 03:53:52 from Josh Berkus <josh(at)agliodbs(dot)com>                                                         2009-03-10 04:23:44 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>                                                          2009-03-10 05:02:55 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                                        2009-03-10 16:41:35 from "Joshua D(dot) Drake" <jd(at)commandprompt(dot)com>                                                         2009-03-10 17:08:26 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>                                                          2009-03-10 17:26:49 from "Joshua D(dot) Drake" <jd(at)commandprompt(dot)com>                                                           2009-03-10 17:47:43 from Alvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com>                                                            2009-03-10 17:49:35 from "Joshua D(dot) Drake" <jd(at)commandprompt(dot)com>                                                             2009-03-10 18:14:14 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>                                                              2009-03-10 18:44:21 from "Joshua D(dot) Drake" <jd(at)commandprompt(dot)com>                                                               2009-03-10 18:59:22 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>                                                                2009-03-10 19:08:43 from "Joshua D(dot) Drake" <jd(at)commandprompt(dot)com>                                                                2009-03-10 19:13:56 from Devrim GÜNDÜZ <devrim(at)gunduz(dot)org>                                                               2009-03-10 19:25:34 from Devrim GÜNDÜZ <devrim(at)gunduz(dot)org>                                                             2009-03-10 18:45:13 from Devrim GÜNDÜZ <devrim(at)gunduz(dot)org>                                                        2009-03-10 18:37:21 from Ron Mayer <rm_pg(at)cheapcomplexdevices(dot)com>                                                         2009-03-10 19:17:37 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>                                                          2009-03-11 05:14:40 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                                     2009-03-10 00:56:36 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                                      2009-03-10 08:58:46 from Hannu Krosing <hannu(at)2ndQuadrant(dot)com>                                                       2009-03-10 09:26:48 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                                       2009-03-10 23:53:44 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                                   2009-03-10 00:41:55 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                            2009-03-10 05:19:57 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                           2009-03-09 09:25:12 from Heikki Linnakangas <heikki(dot)linnakangas(at)enterprisedb(dot)com>                                            2009-03-09 12:26:26 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>                                             2009-03-09 13:35:47 from Stephen Frost <sfrost(at)snowman(dot)net>                                              2009-03-10 10:11:27 from Heikki Linnakangas <heikki(dot)linnakangas(at)enterprisedb(dot)com>                                               2009-03-10 11:02:05 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>                                                2009-03-10 11:48:32 from Gregory Stark <stark(at)enterprisedb(dot)com>                                                2009-03-10 14:32:50 from David Fetter <david(at)fetter(dot)org>                                               2009-03-10 12:35:17 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>                                               2009-03-11 04:09:10 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                                2009-03-11 08:44:10 from Heikki Linnakangas <heikki(dot)linnakangas(at)enterprisedb(dot)com>                                                 2009-03-11 09:17:18 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>                                                  2009-03-11 09:25:31 from Heikki Linnakangas <heikki(dot)linnakangas(at)enterprisedb(dot)com>                                                 2009-03-11 10:39:19 from Gregory Stark <stark(at)enterprisedb(dot)com>                                                  2009-03-11 13:54:13 from Alvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)commandprompt(dot)com>                                                   2009-03-11 16:53:52 from Ron Mayer <rm_pg(at)cheapcomplexdevices(dot)com>                                                    2009-03-12 00:50:46 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                                     2009-03-12 01:22:45 from Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com>                                                      2009-03-12 02:20:57 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                                       2009-03-12 04:06:52 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com> 📎                                                   2009-03-11 17:22:23 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>                                                   2009-03-13 01:37:19 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                                   2009-03-16 02:56:19 from Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>                                                    2009-03-16 05:05:47 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                                    2009-03-16 13:54:24 from Heikki Linnakangas <heikki(dot)linnakangas(at)enterprisedb(dot)com>                                                     2009-03-16 16:57:40 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>                                                     2009-03-17 02:22:27 from Koichi Suzuki <koichi(dot)szk(at)gmail(dot)com>                                                      2009-03-17 06:30:15 from Heikki Linnakangas <heikki(dot)linnakangas(at)enterprisedb(dot)com>                                                       2009-03-18 01:06:55 from Koichi Suzuki <koichi(dot)szk(at)gmail(dot)com>                                                2009-03-13 01:16:25 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                           2009-03-10 03:24:53 from Jaime Casanova <jcasanov(at)systemguards(dot)com(dot)ec>                                            2009-03-10 03:44:53 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>                                    2009-02-26 16:35:37 from Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>                                     2009-02-26 19:02:07 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>                           2009-02-03 00:55:31 from Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com>                      2009-01-31 14:17:48 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>             2009-01-31 00:20:05 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)kaigai(dot)gr(dot)jp>             2009-02-02 15:50:12 from Joshua Brindle <method(at)manicmethod(dot)com>             2009-02-02 16:17:40 from Chad Sellers <csellers(at)tresys(dot)com>          2009-01-29 17:50:34 from Zeugswetter Andreas OSB sIT <Andreas(dot)Zeugswetter(at)s-itsolutions(dot)at>        2009-01-28 19:43:51 from Andrew Sullivan <ajs(at)crankycanuck(dot)ca>         2009-01-28 20:58:17 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>          2009-01-28 22:07:12 from Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com>           2009-01-28 23:34:27 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>            2009-01-28 23:46:12 from Andrew Dunstan <andrew(at)dunslane(dot)net>             2009-01-29 00:39:50 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>              2009-01-29 02:19:35 from Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com>            2009-01-29 02:05:48 from Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com>             2009-01-29 02:49:06 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>              2009-01-29 03:08:57 from Stephen Frost <sfrost(at)snowman(dot)net>              2009-01-29 03:43:41 from Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com>               2009-01-29 04:33:01 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>              2009-01-29 05:55:36 from "Jonah H(dot) Harris" <jonah(dot)harris(at)gmail(dot)com>        2009-01-28 21:09:46 from Dimitri Fontaine <dfontaine(at)hi-media(dot)com>        2009-01-28 22:23:37 from Ron Mayer <rm_pg(at)cheapcomplexdevices(dot)com>       2009-01-28 22:18:27 from Stephen Frost <sfrost(at)snowman(dot)net>        2009-01-28 22:25:20 from Ron Mayer <rm_pg(at)cheapcomplexdevices(dot)com>         2009-01-28 22:47:00 from Joshua Brindle <method(at)manicmethod(dot)com>          2009-01-28 23:19:34 from Ron Mayer <rm_pg(at)cheapcomplexdevices(dot)com>           2009-01-29 01:52:09 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>            2009-01-29 02:22:45 from Stephen Frost <sfrost(at)snowman(dot)net>          2009-01-28 23:57:52 from Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us>           2009-01-29 00:31:18 from Joshua Brindle <method(at)manicmethod(dot)com>           2009-01-29 02:18:19 from Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com>            2009-01-29 02:27:34 from Stephen Frost <sfrost(at)snowman(dot)net>             2009-01-29 03:35:22 from Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com>              2009-01-29 03:44:50 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>            2009-01-29 02:36:14 from Joshua Brindle <method(at)manicmethod(dot)com>            2009-01-29 03:15:27 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>             2009-01-29 03:52:43 from Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com>              2009-01-29 04:10:58 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>            2009-01-29 05:19:30 from Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>             2009-01-29 05:46:38 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>            2009-01-29 10:58:13 from Gregory Stark <stark(at)enterprisedb(dot)com>       2009-01-28 23:15:32 from Gregory Stark <stark(at)enterprisedb(dot)com>     2009-01-29 00:03:21 from KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(at)ak(dot)jp(dot)nec(dot)com>
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• Re: How to get SE-PostgreSQL acceptable at 2009-01-30 21:34:46 from Bruce Momjian

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• Re: How to get SE-PostgreSQL acceptable at 2009-01-30 21:41:22 from Bruce Momjian

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