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Re: have you seen this?

From: Alexey Borzov <borz_off(at)cs(dot)msu(dot)su>
To: Josh Berkus <josh(at)agliodbs(dot)com>
Cc: pgsql-advocacy(at)postgresql(dot)org
Subject: Re: have you seen this?
Date: 2004-05-27 13:57:37
Message-ID: (view raw, whole thread or download thread mbox)
Lists: pgsql-advocacy

Josh Berkus wrote:
> First off, I'm glad you posted this.   Our advocacy thinking tends to be 
> heavily US-dominated and I've wondered for a while how things are in your 
> part of the world.

Well, they are somewhat different.

For example, Russian version of MySQL's manual still sports the famous 
comparison with PostgreSQL:

>>As the PostgreSQL advocacy group thinks that PHP programmers are among
>>their *main* target audience, may I humbly suggest answering the
>>questions that are asked instead of the ones that are not?
> Well, the first question I would ask *us* is whether or not PHP programmers 
> *are* among our main targets for advocacy.   Based on my experience at 
> PHPCon, I would say that 80% of PHP coders would be well served by SQLite -- 
> MySQL is more powerful than they need or want, let alone us.   

That 80% of PHP coders do *not* go to conferences and are indeed best 
served by SQLite. But I am speaking about the other 20%, and if some of 
them switch that'll be extremely good:
* advocacy within the community
* quality web apllications that support PostgreSQL

> Not that I'm writing off the PHP community.  Given PostgreSQL's powerful 
> functions, views, and other in-database code, it makes a really dynamic 
> pairing with a lightweight scripting language like PHP -- one which I've used 
> to great effect.   But I think that the target audience for this message is 
> not necessarily existing PHP jockeys, but rather coders in client-side 
> languages, and database designers used to Oracle and MSSQL, looking to move 
> to the web.

OK, let's replace "PHP developers" by "current MySQL users". My point 
being, that most of them already know about features, and some of them 
even *want* these features. While there are some real problems 
preventing them from switching (lack of Win32 port, for instance), there 
also are some imagined ones and the natural aversion to change.

>>The most successful (most quoted) advocacy articles I remember were the
>>once from OpenACS (Why not MySQL?) and (MySQL gotchas). To
>>make people look at PostgreSQL you should concentrate on why MySQL is
>>*bad*, to create a sense of insecurity in its users. That is the
>>propaganda that works.
> If you really want to reach the PHP coders where they live, though, just point 
> out MySQL's licensing policy.    If they want to use MySQL and *not* 
> open-source their entire site, then they have to cough up $300 to $500US to 
> MySQL AB as a commercial license, and pay for *each server* they use.    
> That's a persuasive reason to switch to PostgreSQL.    You can also point out 
> that MySQL AB has changed the MySQL license 3 times since 2.0; what's to keep 
> them from closing it entirely, and eliminating the Open Source version, if 
> they feel it will be profitable?

Yes, and that is precisely the approach I called "creating a sense of 
insecurity". "You can get fired for choosing MySQL", "what happens when 
MySQL AB goes bankrupt?", etc. :]

The recent article on licensing problems was noticed *very* well.

I'd like to suggest doing the same things in technical perspective: why 
implementing the functionality on client side is *bad*, length of 
MySQL's release cycles, creating some "switching" stories, this kind of 

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