|From:||Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us>|
|To:||Andres Freund <andres(at)anarazel(dot)de>|
|Cc:||Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com>, Stephen Frost <sfrost(at)snowman(dot)net>, Alvaro Herrera <alvherre(at)alvh(dot)no-ip(dot)org>, Masahiko Sawada <sawada(dot)mshk(at)gmail(dot)com>, Tom Kincaid <tomjohnkincaid(at)gmail(dot)com>, Amit Kapila <amit(dot)kapila16(at)gmail(dot)com>, Thomas Munro <thomas(dot)munro(at)gmail(dot)com>, PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org>, Masahiko Sawada <masahiko(dot)sawada(at)2ndquadrant(dot)com>|
|Subject:||Re: storing an explicit nonce|
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On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 01:54:21PM -0700, Andres Freund wrote:
> On 2021-05-25 15:34:04 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > My point is that we have to full-page-write cases where we change the
> > nonce --- we get a new LSN/nonce for free if we are using the LSN as the
> > nonce. What has made this approach much easier is that you basically
> > tie a change of the nonce to require a change of LSN, since you are WAL
> > logging it and every nonce change has to be full-page-write WAL logged.
> > This makes the LSN-as-nonce less fragile to breakage than a custom
> > nonce, in my opinion, which may explain why my patch is so small.
> This disregards that we need to be able to increment nonces on standbys
> / during crash recovery.
> It may look like that's not needed, with an (wrong!) argument like: The
> only writes come from crash recovery, which always are associated with a
> WAL record, guaranteeing nonce increases. Hint bits are not an issue
> because they don't mark the buffer dirty.
> But unfortunately that analysis is wrong. Consider the following
> 1) replay record LSN X affecting page Y (FPI replay)
> 2) write out Y, encrypt Y using X as nonce
> 3) crash
> 4) replay record LSN X affecting page Y (FPI replay)
> 5) hint bit update to Y, resulting in Y'
> 6) write out Y', encrypt Y' using X as nonce
> While 5) did not mark the page as dirty, it still modified the page
> contents. Which means that we'd encrypt different content with the same
> nonce - which is not allowed.
> I'm pretty sure that there's several other ways to end up with page
> contents that differ, despite the LSN not changing.
Yes, I can see that happening. I think occasional leakage of hint bit
changes to be acceptable. We might decide they are all acceptable.
If only the physical world exists, free will is an illusion.
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