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Re: [pgsql-advocacy] Design Proposal

From: Jean-Paul ARGUDO <jean-paul(at)argudo(dot)org>
To: Mitch Pirtle <mitch(dot)pirtle(at)gmail(dot)com>
Cc: PostgreSQL www <pgsql-www(at)postgresql(dot)org>,PostgreSQL advocacy <pgsql-advocacy(at)postgresql(dot)org>
Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] Design Proposal
Date: 2004-10-28 14:43:39
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Lists: pgsql-advocacypgsql-www
> Why in the
> world would someone want to build their own when there are hundreds,
> HUNDREDS of portal tooklits and CMS to choose from?  To an experienced
> developer this is like slowly removing your fingernails with a dull
> razor that was just dipped in fresh lemon juice.

Yeah I understand what you mean. Im pretty thinking the same. But dont forget
two things:

a) build its own CMS is really a nice challenge, but is only interesting for
learning purposes. One may respond to this viewing and understanding Drupal's
source code or SPIP one's as same effect... well its not just the same

b) NIH Syndrom : Not Invented Here. This is the human factor! :)

> Second, it seems there are a couple people that insist that everything
> is going fine, and that (more or less) everything must be done their
> way(TM).  There are other people that are convinced that nothing is
> getting done, and appear so desperate that they will take anything
> that they can get.  The disparity to me (a relative outsider)
> indicates that whatever effort I put into this is at risk of either
> being duplicated or dropped altogether before ever seeing daylight.

As *much* open source and free software projects are!

The parallel in science is called the theory of evolution from darwin...

Having many projects doing the same makes the best one survive.

As an example, there are other free RDBMS out there: some will die for sure, one
surely because it is too complicated to participate in because there are too
many languages one may know to contribute. Another one doesnt accept anyone to
participate... others are getting closed source...

So What? That's life.

> I joined the Mambo CMS team beause I realized it was an
> interesting-but-pointless exercise creating my own CMS, but mainly to
> also wire in support for Postgres ;-)  Drupal, and others could also
> fit the bill.  I just can't see that the website for a database is so
> special that it requires a ground-up approach of cobbled-together
> libraries and proprietary code.

Proprietary code? Where?

> Third, the 'web presence' of the Postgres community as a whole is a
> mess.  Gborg, pgfoundry, www, advocacy, how many other sites are
> there?  And in what state?  Sheesh, this is as bad as python. (slaps
> forehead)

Agreed. I also participated in the mess, creating, the
french dark side of the force.

You introduce a real interesting idea, maybe of a unique site, lets say, where everything could be put together?

This would be great for anyone finding the information he(she) looks for.

> My experience with Mambo is that you can really only have one
> 'official website' (and tightly link that to the forums), and only one
> 'dev site' (which for us is  Then there is no
> confusion, no duplication of effort, and a stronger web identity for
> Postgres.

Yep. You also put "every egg in the same bag" (french proverb). So what if one
sites goes down?.. May be mirror yes, like does...

I agree with you when you say "no duplication of effort", because in our
experience, setting up our Drupal wasnt that easy, and he have it running fine
just for some weeks...

I wonder if, finaly, having a "container" for the french community around PG
would have been sufficient or not..

So this "supa postgresql www site" has to be able to satisfy every need one may

> We just had someone submit a graphical layout proposal for the new
> site (which I considered brilliant), hoping to help.  They were
> immediately told 'thanks, but no thanks'.   ?    Then all the
> compliments started coming in, and I saw many people agree that this
> was a great design - clean, professional, aesthetic.  But there were a
> couple people that said it won't work - and also explained the rather
> non-standard requirements that they have, and why they didn't like it.
> It just doesn't make sense to me.

You're a bit rude. If one person here has "non-standard requirements", you can
be sure hundreds, maybe thousand of potential visitor have
just the same.

> I would love to help out, but after a couple weeks of reading the
> threads I'm not sure how to help, or if it is really welcome.  Who is
> in charge, what is the plan, and how can I (realistically) help?

Yes, a bit of organization, lets say projet driven method, could be good here.

But, afaik, this is only a free talk at the moment :)


Jean-Paul ARGUDO

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