On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 4:01 AM, Magnus Hagander <magnus(at)hagander(dot)net> wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 7:14 PM, Fujii Masao <masao(dot)fujii(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Magnus Hagander <magnus(at)hagander(dot)net> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Fujii Masao <masao(dot)fujii(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 3:18 AM, Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 7:18 AM, Magnus Hagander <magnus(at)hagander(dot)net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> You agreed to add something like NOSYNC option into START_REPLICATION command?
>>>>>>>> I'm on the fence. I was hoping somebody else would chime in with an
>>>>>>>> opinion as well.
>>>>>> Nobody else with any opinion on this? :(
>>>>> I don't think we really need a NOSYNC flag at this point. Just not
>>>>> setting the flush location in clients that make a point of flushing in
>>>>> a timely fashion seems fine.
>>>> Okay, I'm in the minority, so I'm writing the patch that way. WIP
>>>> patch attached.
>>>> In the patch, pg_basebackup background process and pg_receivexlog always
>>>> return invalid location as flush one, and will never become sync standby even
>>>> if their name is in synchronous_standby_names. The timing of their sending
>>> That doesn't match with the patch, afaics. The patch always sets the
>>> correct write location, which means it can become a remote_write
>>> synchronous standby, no? It will only send it back when timeout
>>> expires, but it will be sent back.
>> No. Though correct write location is sent back, they don't become sync standby
>> because flush location is always invalid. While flush location is
>> invalid, the master
>> will never regard the remote server as sync one even if synchronous_commit is
>> set to remote_write.
> Oh. I wasn't aware of that part.
>>> I wonder if that might actually be a more reasonable mode of operation
>>> in general:
>>> * always send back the write position, at the write interval
>>> * always send back the flush position, when we're flushing (meaning
>>> when we switch xlog)
>>> have an option that makes it possible to:
>>> * always send back the write position as soon as it changes (making
>>> for a reasonable remote_write sync standby)
>>> * actually flush the log after each write instead of end of file
>>> (making for a reasonable full sync standby)
>>> meaning you'd have something like "pg_receivexlog --sync=write" and
>>> "pg_receivexlog --sync=flush" controlling it instead.
>> Yeah, in this way, pg_receivexlog can become sync even if
>> synchronous_commit is on, which seems more useful. But
>> I'm thinking that the synchronous pg_receivexlog stuff should
>> be postponed to 9.3 because its patch seems to become too
>> big to apply at this beta stage. So, in 9.2, to fix the problem,
>> what about just applying the simple patch which prevents
>> pg_basebackup background process and pg_receivexlog from
>> becoming sync standby whatever synchronous_standby_names
>> and synchronous_commit are set to?
> With the addition that we should set the write location, because
> that's very useful and per what you said above should be perfectly
>>> And deal with the "user put * in synchronous_standby_names and
>>> accidentally got pg_receivexlog as the sync standby" by more clearly
>>> warning people not to use * for that parameter... Since it's simply
>>> dangerous :)
> What would be good wording? Something along the line of "Using the *
> entry is not recommended since it can lead to unexpected results when
> new standbys are added" or something like that?
>>>> the reply depends on the standby_message_timeout specified in -s option. So
>>>> the write position may lag behind the true position.
>>>> pg_receivexlog accepts new option -S (better option character?). If this option
>>>> is specified, pg_receivexlog returns true flush position, and can become sync
>>>> standby. It sends back the reply to the master each time the write position
>>>> changes or the timeout passes. If synchronous_commit is set to remote_write,
>>>> synchronous replication to pg_receivexlog would work well.
>>> Yeah, I hadn't considered the remote_write mode, but I guess that's
>>> why you have to track the current write position across loads, which
>>> first confused me.
>> The patch has to track the current write location to decide whether to send
>> back the reply to the master, IOW to know whether the write location
>> has changed, IOW to know whether we've already sent the reply about
>> the latest write location.
> Yeha, makes perfect sense.
>>> Looking at some other usecases for this, I wonder if we should also
>>> force a status message whenever we switch xlog files, even if we
>>> aren't running in sync mode, even if the timeout hasn't expired. I
>>> think that would be a reasonable thing to do, since you often want to
>>> track things based on files.
>> You mean that the pg_receivexlog should send back the correct flush
>> location whenever it switches xlog files?
> No, I mean just send back a status message. Meaning that without
> specifiying the sync modes per above, it would send back the *write*
> location. This would be useful for tracking xlog filenames between
> master and pg_receivexlog, without extra delay.
>>>> The patch needs more documentation. But I think that it's worth reviewing the
>>>> code in advance, so I attached the WIP patch. Comments? Objections?
>>> Looking at the code, what exactly prompts the changes to the backend
>>> side? That seems unrelated? Are we actually considering picking a
>>> standby with InvalidXlogRecPtr as a sync standby today?
>>> Isn't it enough to just send the proper write and flush locations from
>>> the frontend?
>> No, unless I'm missing something.
>> The problem that we should address first is that the master can pick up
>> pg_basebackup background process and pg_receivexlog as a sync
>> standby even if they always return an invalid write and flush positions.
>> Since they don't send any correct write and flush positions, if they are
>> accidentally regarded as sync standby, all transactions can get blocked
>> infinitely. So the patch needed to change the walsender code so that it
>> doesn't pick up the remote server as sync one while its flush position
>> is invalid.
> Yeah, that is clearly wrong. I think I missed this behaviour, and got
> confused by the fact that the patch was trying to fix two different
> things - only one of which I was aware of.
> So yes, per above, let's isolate out this part as one patch and get
> that into 9.2, along with the "set the proper write location", but
> leave everything else for 9.3.
Agreed. The attached patch always sets the correct write location and
prevents the remote server sending back invalid flush location from
becoming sync standby.
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