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Re: We should get active / The tools

From: Susanne Ebrecht <miracee(at)miracee(dot)de>
To: Jean-Paul Argudo <jean-paul(at)postgresqlfr(dot)org>
Cc: PostgreSQL EU General <pgeu-general(at)postgresql(dot)org>
Subject: Re: We should get active / The tools
Date: 2008-02-28 11:35:00
Message-ID: (view raw, whole thread or download thread mbox)
Lists: pgeu-general
Jean-Paul Argudo schrieb:
> Hi,
> Susanne Ebrecht a écrit / schrieb / wrote :
>> Also I can't see the need of a wiki for the European group at the moment.
>> For what do we need a wiki?
>> Isn't the mailing list, the IRC channel and static web presentation enough?
> Let me explain what will be our tools and why we need a Wiki.
>  - the IRC is just the "room near the coffee machine" for me.
>    Thats where we talk about {every|no}thing. To me it hasn't any value
>    more than friendship, highly interactive community, support... but
>    *nothing* official to me!
>    Just because many of us aren't on the IRC, it doesn't represent then
>    the community. As an example Tom Lane isn't on IRC.
>    Another example is that someone willing to discuss something with us
>    from another far country cannot, due to the different time zones.
>    Thats one main reason I often go to bed to late :)
>    But clearly, the coffee room can be a place where good ideas come,
>    then it *HAS* to become more official, on the Mailing-list
>    (pgeu-general)
>  - Mailing lists: this is where every thing is discussed officially. It
>    is public (except one private ML for board members only). Everyone
>    gives its arguments, and we try there to get the best of many brains,
>    the far-far-away little voice or even the shy guy that quite never
>    posts. This is how it works. This is how the PostgreSQL works.
>  - Wiki: the board of PG-Eu approved the need of a wiki for simple and
>    practical reasons: it is far more easy to add content and maintain it
>    than a "static Web presentation". We don't want static info. Its all
>    the contrary. Our group is willing to be active !
>    More over, we're planning to delegate some areas of the Wiki, since
>    we won't master the wiki only with 4 people! Remember that board is
>    here only for legal matters (be non-profit, have a bank account owned
>    by a non-profit, claim help to other non-profit (European Community,
>    for example, but maybe SPI, who knows), etc...).
>    As an example of this item, we'll have to maintain the information
>    in some of the most important languages in Europe (if not all!). I
>    won't translate to german, Im sorry, I only speak french, spanish and
>    english :-( But I hope people like you can help on this ;-)
>  - (some tool, undefined): we'll need 'something' more. It may be a
>    sub-part of the official wiki, or another tool. We agreed on the need
>    of this "other tool" in the board to store some special non-public
>    things. This may be passwords, detailed account numbers, contacts
>    with private phone numbers, etc. This can't be public, as you may
>    understand. It can't be stored on e-mails too. We just discussing
>    that point currently.
> And that's it. At the moment, our needs are completely covered by these
> tools, Wiki included.
> Our (==every pgeu-general subscriber) needs may change with time,
> and we will adapt.
> I hope my arguments are enough to make you understand why we need a
> Wiki. If you want more details, don't hesitate in asking.


I think you missed the point for what for the European Group is 
Most stuff you suggested is part of language based communities.
Of course we needed an official board for donation and banking stuff.
But the European group is just a "meeting point" for the leader of 
language based communities. That we don't reinvent the wheel at every 
language based community. That we can share options and merchandising 
And that we know each other. Don't forget, that before we found the 
group the French didn't know the Germans and nobody of us did know the 
Italians and they didn't that we exist and so on.
Our main activities will still be at our language based communities.

What we need is a webpage with links to the language based community 
that's all.
We don't make support at the EU group.
We don't organise events there, we maybe just announce them when they 
could be interesting for more then one country.
The PGDay will be organised from the Italians with help from other 
language based communities. The same with FOSDEM. Original this was 
orgnaised from the Germans with help from the French.
The European group don't have to organise events, they just has to force 
contacts to other language based communties if somebody needs help.

Usually the European group should be very quiet. Some examples:

When the French want to have blue elephants, they ask the Germans 
because they know that they know how to order them. -> no direct 
activity from the EU group
Only when the French didn't know, where to get blue elephants, they 
should ask EU group and the EU group should forward the contact to the 

When they need money for blue elephants then the EU group should get 
active too.

Another example: We have two or three Dutch guys. They wanted to found a 
language based groups. Of course EU group will help them with 
experiences and how to found a group. But the rest is part of the Dutch 
guys. When they want to make a booth at a small event at the Netherlands 
and they don't have enough people for it and don't know who to ask, then 
the EU group should look who is next to them and force this topic to the 
Germans or maybe the French.

Usually all this stuff occurs only a handful emails. The rest is made 
from the language based communities by themselves.

What we can discuss is, if we want a common wiki for all language based 
communities or if  every language based communtiy should decide on their 
own how they will inform their members.

For a presentation of the European PostgreSQL group we don't need a 
wiki. We just need a handful pages. We already said what we need in 
another thread and nobody added more.


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