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Re: Release Candidate of the PostgreSQL Europe association statutes

From: Gabriele Bartolini <gabriele(dot)bartolini(at)gmail(dot)com>
To: Dave Page <dpage(at)postgresql(dot)org>
Cc: "Joshua D(dot) Drake" <jd(at)commandprompt(dot)com>, damien(at)dalibo(dot)info, pgeu-general(at)postgresql(dot)org
Subject: Re: Release Candidate of the PostgreSQL Europe association statutes
Date: 2008-01-13 22:02:27
Message-ID: (view raw, whole thread or download thread mbox)
Lists: pgeu-general
Ciao Dave,

Dave Page ha scritto:
> I think maybe we have some miscommunication between us here. My
> understanding of what we all agreed in Prato was that PG-EU would be
> an 'umbrella' organisation, supporting the regional user groups.
No no ... don't worry, it is not a miscommunication. It is all clear. I 
guess some of those ideas came up from me as well. :)

Mine was just an example to let everyone know that paying a fee is quite 
normal in non-profit organisation in Italy. :)

Also, the umbrella organisation was there for those users that did not 
have a national group (small countries). In that case EU-PUG is the 
direct link.
> In that scenario, the only 'members' of PG-EU would be the regional
> groups themselves, and the staff/volunteers running it.
Yep. Clear. However, we must keep in mind small countries that do not 
have a national group.
> Normal users would join their regional group, such as PostgreSQLFr or
> the Italian PUG, and pay the appropriate membership.
Exactly. I guess PG-EU should allow standard membership for those 
countries that do not have a national group (a non profit organisation). 
For those that have one (at the moment France and Italy, soon UK), 
membership will be automatically redirected to the national group. The 
national group will pay an annual fee (or part of the member quote) to 
the EU PUG.

I guess we can work this out.
> Otherwise, many users will only join one or the other which would make
> PG-EU and the regional groups competitors with each other.
No way!!!
> For example, if PG-EU operated as a user group, why would I bother
> joining it instead of the UK User Group which we're just trying to
> setup? Or, should we just not bother with the UK group?
In Italy, the Group was  a necessity. As I have said several times, a 
non-profit organisation is necessary if you want to relate yourself with 
the government, with business, with companies, with third-parties in 
general in a legal way.

Organising events such as last year's PGDay is not possible if you are 
not a non-profit organisation (ok, there are other ways, but I like to 
keep it in a volunteering scenario).
> In the scenario I thought we'd agreed, the UK user group would take
> membership from users and use some of that to pay for it's membership
> in PG-EU.
> In return, PG-EU would provide legal status and banking
> facilities, and as well as providing access to standardised flyers and
> other materials, as well as t-shirts and fluffy elephants etc, bulk
> purchased for the benefit of all member organisations.
I guess having an independent financial situation (if affordable by 
volunteers of the national group) is preferred for national issues. But 
the rest and overall scale economies are one of the major reasons for 
the group (not the only one though - and I do not want to cite the 
others now :) ).

Thanks Dave.


Gabriele Bartolini: Open source programmer and data architect
Current Location: Prato, Tuscany, Italy
gabriele(dot)bartolini(at)gmail(dot)com |
"If I had been born ugly, you would never have heard of Pelé", George Best

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