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Re: [pgsql-advocacy] Alternate Design

From: Jussi Mikkola <jussi(dot)mikkola(at)bonware(dot)com>
To: Bruce Momjian <pgman(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us>
Cc: pgsql-advocacy(at)postgresql(dot)org, pgsql-www(at)postgresql(dot)org
Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] Alternate Design
Date: 2004-11-13 11:20:07
Message-ID: (view raw, whole thread or download thread mbox)
Lists: pgsql-advocacypgsql-www

I think this is very much project management and co-operation issue.

First, I think that the web desing should be decided by those people who 
do the design. And those who don't, well, I don't see much help that we 
critisize the work of others. They surely know what they are doing. So I 
think it would be best, that both the design groups would talk together, 
and come up with a  solution they see best. And one thing that 
influences this very much, is, that one needs to think also about the 
future, and that all those people can also contribute in the future, and 
don't quit, because their work was not considered valuable. And there is 
a plenty of graphical work to do, so that there is the same look and 
feel in both web and other materials.

Secondly, I think we are not looking at the whole picture. We need some 
kind of a schedule. That schedule should have both the website, the 
translations, and the code in it. (And maybe some other things too. )We 
could then for example decide, that we postpone the 8.0 release for 1 
month, because that way we have the new website ready. The same thing 
with translations, templates etc.

Schedule is also important for the point, that now there has been 
complaints about designs, and nobody ever considers, is it better that 
what we have know? When can we have it ready? We try to have it perfect, 
and fail to notice, that a good solution now, would be better, than a 
perfect solution sometime after the release.

This applies also to the release schedule. I have seen, that it will be 
released, when it's ready, but no schedule. To decide that we have a new 
design by 8.0 we also need to have a date for it. If we then later 
decide to move that date, then we do, but it gives others an idea, when 
they should have something ready. And it helps them make decisions. They 
can decide to leave some part out just to make it ready.

Finally, I think we also need a place, where this all is available for 
those who need access to it. It does not help that there is a schedule, 
if people don't know it. And telling people, what is happening and when, 
makes it a lot easier for them to take part in doing it. And then people 
having the skills, can see where their skills are bringing most value.



Bruce Momjian wrote:

>Alexey Borzov wrote:
>>Bruce Momjian wrote:
>>>>>Is the new website going to be rolled out in time for the 8.0 release,
>>>>>which could be in the next few weeks?
>>>OK, fair enough.  Now can someone explain how we can put out a release
>>>evrery 8-12 months with 200-300 changes, some very complex, and we can't
>>>get a group together to update a web site?
>>Your question implies that there exists some "group". Well, I can easily name 
>>people doing the work on the server. Can you name the people doing the work on 
>>the website?
>I can name a few, but not enough, as you suggest.  The point is not who
>we have but how are we making it easy for more people to get involved.
>>How much attention does the Core actually pays to the website?
>Well, I assumed there were enough people involved that having core in
>there wasn't going to help, but maybe I was wrong.

Jussi Mikkola                    Partner, Project Manager
Bonware Oy                       gsm +358 40 830 7561
Tekniikantie 21                  tel +358 9 2517 5570
02150 Espoo                      fax +358 9 2517 5571 

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