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Re: [pgsql-advocacy] Alternate Design

From: "Gavin M(dot) Roy" <gmr(at)ehpg(dot)net>
To: Dave Page <dpage(at)vale-housing(dot)co(dot)uk>
Cc: Bruce Momjian <pgman(at)candle(dot)pha(dot)pa(dot)us>,Alexey Borzov <borz_off(at)cs(dot)msu(dot)su>, Josh Berkus <josh(at)agliodbs(dot)com>,pgsql-advocacy(at)postgresql(dot)org, Omar Kilani <omar(at)tinysofa(dot)org>,pgsql-www(at)postgresql(dot)org
Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] Alternate Design
Date: 2004-11-12 23:56:28
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Lists: pgsql-advocacypgsql-www
>Have you checked the todo list? Those are the things we need to do in
>the short term if you can contribute.
Nope, I'm sure it's my fault, but I don't know where that is, and if 
it's in cvs, how to get at it.  Alexey posted a tarball of his source, 
but after my last contribution via email to the current  Lucaz design 
went completely unnoticed and didnt even receive a no-thanks, we'd 
rather keep it the way it is, I'm a bit out of the loop on what it takes 
to actually get something done.  Add to that lack of documention to 
coding standards, and Alexey's clear stance on such things, and not 
wanted to step on Alexey's toes to get it anything done.... well here I am.

>I realise I'm probably one of the people you accuse of being rude and
>shooting down ideas (and if I have been rude to anyone, please excuse me
To be honest, I can only come up with a few people off hand and you 
werent one of them Dave ;).  That's not to say.. well never mind.

>- it was most certainly unintentional), but please see it from my point
>of view. Periodically we get a barrage of message criticising the work
>we put in from people who haven't taken the time to review the archives
>of the list, or look at the cvs/todo/commit messages etc. It's extremely
>disheartening to those of us that do give *many* hours of our time each
>week, especially when 95% of those people complaining won't actually
>help out. 
I understand your point here, and don't disagree.  I can only state that 
in the past I've seen many offers to help, and if it's not in line with 
"Finish Alexey's code" it's shot down *right away*.  There are many ways 
for people to do things, and for example, when the tinysofa ppl came up 
with a new design, the "official" response was basicly for them to get 
lost.  Too little too late.  Unless something is overly complex and 
wrong with Alexey's code, applying a different theme should be fairly 
easy and could take less than a day.

>As one of the oldest -www members, I have tried to lead as much as I
>can, and each time I try to focus people on getting the job done, I get
>flamed for not listening to different ideas about tasks we have already
>discussed or even done. 
I've been on here a while, and I notice the flame wars.  I try not to 
stir them up.  Without a clear person in charge, it's collective group 
think, and in collective group think people will always disagree and 
stuff won't get done en masse.

>So, here's the current plan again:
>1) Finish the new website, specifically the items on the todo list.
>2) Make the new website live.
>3a) Merge in the advocacy and developer websites.
>3b) Review/update/sanitise all content.
Point me to the todo list and put up with my questions about how to get 
stuff put in approved, working, etc and hopefully I can contribute.  
Ultimately I would prefer to see the tinysofa design instead of Lucaz's, 
sorry Lucaz...

>In addition to which, I've have suggested to a number of volunteers that
>a good standalone project would be a good replacement CMS for techdocs.
That would be nice, I know of one that works really well ;-)


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