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Re: beta testing version

From: Don Baccus <dhogaza(at)pacifier(dot)com>
To: Thomas Lockhart <lockhart(at)alumni(dot)caltech(dot)edu>
Cc: PostgreSQL Development <pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org>
Subject: Re: beta testing version
Date: 2000-12-04 08:15:16
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Lists: pgsql-hackers
At 07:11 AM 12/4/00 +0000, Thomas Lockhart wrote:

>We are offering our services and expertise to a community outside
>-hackers, as a business formed in a way that this new community expects
>to see. Nothing special or sinister here. Other than it seems to have
>raised the point that you expected each of us to be working for you,
>gratis, on projects you find compelling, using all of our available
>time, far into the future just as each of us has over the last five

No, not at all.  Working gratis is not the issue, as I made clear. There
are - despite your rather condescending statement implying otherwise -
business models that lead to revenue without abandoning open source.

I'm making a decent living following such a business model, thank
you very much.  I'm living proof that it is possible.


>A recent example of non-sinister change in another area is the work done
>to release 7.0.3. This is a release which would not have happened in
>previous cycles, since we are so close to beta on 7.1. But GB paid Tom
>Lane to work on it as part of *their* business plan, and he sheparded it
>through the cycle. There was no outcry from you at this presumption, and
>on this diversion of community resources for this effort. Not sure why,
>other than you chose to pick some other fight.

There's a vast difference between releasing 7.0.3 in open source form TODAY
and eRServer, which may not be released in open source form for up to two
years after it enters the market on a closed source, proprietary footing.
To suggest there is no difference, as you seem to be doing, is a hopelessly
unconvincing argument.

The fact that you seem blind to the difference is one reason why PG, Inc 
worries me (since you are a principle in the company).

The reason you heard no outcry from me in the PG 7.0.3 case is because there
*is* a difference between it and a semi-proprietary product like eRServer.
If GB had held Tom's work on PG 7.0.3 and released it only in (say) a packaged
release for purchase, saying "we'll release it to the CVS tree after we
recoup our investment", there would've been an outcry from me, bet on it.

Probably others, too...

>And no matter which fight you chose, you're wasting the time of others
>as you fight your demons.

Well, I guess I'll have to stay off my medication, otherwise my demons
might disappear.  I'm a regular miracle of medical science until I forget
to take them.

- Don Baccus, Portland OR <dhogaza(at)pacifier(dot)com>
  Nature photos, on-line guides, Pacific Northwest
  Rare Bird Alert Service and other goodies at

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