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Re: Maybe this will help, maybe it won't

From: Koen Martens <gmc(at)sonologic(dot)nl>
To: Susanne Ebrecht <miracee(at)miracee(dot)de>
Cc: "Joshua D(dot) Drake" <jd(at)commandprompt(dot)com>, pgeu-general(at)postgresql(dot)org
Subject: Re: Maybe this will help, maybe it won't
Date: 2008-01-26 13:38:48
Message-ID: 20080126133847.GD16275@dave.dh.sono (view raw, whole thread or download thread mbox)
Lists: pgeu-general
On Sat, Jan 26, 2008 at 06:17:59AM +0100, Susanne Ebrecht wrote:
> Ok, my opinion: theoretically, of course this job could do a non European 
> too. It's a question of trust.
> I have an argument, for the limitation:
> 1) you can say, we are burned children.
> It was an Austrian guy who rules Germany and who is responsible for the 2nd 
> world war.
> It's too late at the moment, to remember European history, but there are 
> lots of more Foreigners who rules a country. First the people trusted and 
> thought, he/she can help and all will get better but at least they failed 
> and it got more worse.
> I think, it's more a self-protection. Europeans sometime learn from their 
> past. It's very deep in our souls and also me, who always tries to be open 
> for argument and think about stuff looking to the other side. I understand 
> your argument, but my stomach is telling me,  that we don't should cancel 
> the limitation.
> I wouldn't touch this, because you really will hit a very sensible point of 
> the Europeans. But I agree, that this is difficult to understand for non 
> Europeans.
> There is a second thing, Europeans fear deep in their souls. But it's 
> better, that I'll tell you this on another platform, maybe together with a 
> beer,  when we will meet us.

I'm sorry, but this is complete and utter crap (pardon my french!).

There is no such thing as 'the european'. I just had a discussion about
this in a different setting, and we were discussing the way Dutch people
differ from Germans. Although we are neighbours, there are quite some
differences in cultural orientation. We concluded that, generally
speaking, the Dutch are much more atlantic-oriented. 

There is basically not a lot, culturally, binding me with Italians or
Polish people. Worlds apart. I can not even begin to understand the
deep-rooted catholicism of the Italians for example, it scares me even.
The recent hate and violence against gay people in Poland made me think
'and why should i be considered european along with Polish people'? Just
some examples of why i don't really feal like a 'european', and why i think
no-one can. There simple is no such thing.

But we are digressing beyond usefullness i think. Besides, wasn't there
some rule that once you start introducing WWII the discussion is over :)



K.F.J. Martens, Sonologic,
Networking, hosting, embedded systems, unix, artificial intelligence.
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