Re: Re: [GENERAL] 7.0 vs. 7.1 (was: latest version?)

Bruce Momjian wrote:

> > I appreciate the fact that we are not here to make it easy for
> > distributors to package our software. I also appreciate the fact that
> > if you don't at least make an effort to work with major distributors
> > (and RedHat, TurboLinux, Caldera, and SuSE together comprise a major
> > userbase) that you run the risk of not being distributed in favor of an
> > inferior product.

> Let them. It is their decision. Frankly, I have seen this attitude
> before, and I don't like it. Just the mention that "Gee, if you don't
> cooperate, we may yank you," is really a veiled threat.

I don't even see it as a veiled threat, Bruce. It simply _is_ a
threat. There are other RDBMS choices. Currently PostgreSQL is the
Officially Sanctioned RDBMS for multiple Linux distributions. As our
capabilities increase, it will make us more and more attractive as the
Choice, Top Shelf Open Source RDBMS.

However, the upgrade gotcha has left a very bitter taste in more than
one user's mouth. I'll not say more about that now, as I've said quite
enough in the past. And I'm still trying to figure out enough of the
internals of the storage manager to try to write the migration tools
myself. But, I have other fish to fry right now, the biggest being
cross-distribution RPM's.

> > Linux is far from the only OS to be supported by
> > PostgreSQL, true. But Linux is also the most popular OS for PostgreSQL
> > deployment.

> True, it is the most popular, but that doesn't make the others less
> important.

No, it doesn't.

> This whole statement comes across as, "You run on Linux, and look, you
> took the time to run on other OS's too. How quaint."

I ran Unix before there was linux. I ran Unix years before Linus was
even out of High School. Well, that is if you count Tandy Xenix V7 and
System III as Unix. Or AT&T 3B1 SysVR2. Or Apollo DomainOS SR10.2. Or
Ultrix on a VAX 11/750 (running in tandem with VMS). And I'm considering
moving my most critical public servers from Linux over to OpenBSD. A
Linux bigot I'm not.

> > However, there are known problems that can bite people who are not using
> > RPM's and are not running Linux. Some of those problems are such that
> > it will take someone with more knowledge than I currently possess to

> Again, your comments where quite helpful. We need more of them. We
> need to hear more about the problems people are having with RPM's, and
> how to make them better.

Bruce, sometimes I fear my own lack of communications skills. If I can
make my wife fighting mad at me with me having no clue as to what I said
that made her mad, I fear I can make anyone mad, without knowing what I
said to do so. So, I guess you could say I'm a little paranoid about my
communications skills. So, I'm glad you considered my comments helpful
-- I was beginning to get worried.

> There must be a list of known problems. Let's hear them, so we can try
> to solve them as a group. However, in general, we do not make dramatic
> change to work around OS bugs, and do not plan to make major changes to
> work around the limitations of RPM's. My bet is that some middle layer
> can be created that will fix that for us.

Meet Mr. Middle Layer. :-) The PostgreSQL spec file that controls the
RPM build is one of the most complex ones in the RedHat distribution,
AFAIK. There's the middle layer. It does quite a bit of finagling
already.

And the work that Peter E is doing is helping my cause significantly.

Bruce, when I recover fully from the illness I've had the last few days,
I'll try to come up with a coherent listing of what I've had to work
around in the past. My current headache won't let me think straight
right now, which makes it likely that I won't effectively communicate
the issues.
--
Lamar Owen
WGCR Internet Radio
1 Peter 4:11