Re: Requirements for updated site

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alexey Borzov [mailto:borz_off(at)cs(dot)msu(dot)su]
> Sent: 14 January 2004 21:13
> To: Dave Page
> Cc: pgsql-www(at)postgresql(dot)org
> Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] Requirements for updated site
>
> Hi!
>
> Dave Page wrote:
> > 1) Should be multilingual for static and non-static pages.
>
> Looks like this part is working now. Although the l10n of the
> static (i.e. not kept in the DB) content can be made in a
> better way: using gettext or something similar. While the
> pages are mostly translated, the feedback messages in e.g.
> system/handleform.php are not.

Is it not easier to put everything in the DB? How would we handle the editting of po files on the server?

Bear in mind that the vast majority of the site (10K pages or so) is already in the database with embedded (and messy) HTML tags.

> I only want to propose keeping English version in root, not
> in en/: most of the mirror sites will be completely static
> and unable to redirect to en/ if the user hits the root.

Iirc (and bear in mind I don't know Andreas' code well), the mirrors only need mod_rewrite to work properly.

> > 3) XHTML/CSS compliant.
> > 4) The page width should be variable.
>
> The problem with the current code is that HTML is embedded in
> PHP. It is thus
> *extremely* difficult to edit it. Besides, files in
> system/layout contain not only presentation, but business
> logic as well (database queries, this kind of stuff).
>
> I suggest either
> a) Using a template engine
> or
> b) Creating HTML pages with *minimal* (presentation only) PHP
> embedded inside them.

No problem there, however let's be careful not over engineer things. If (for example) the entire site is in a single database then a single php file is all that is required. Splitting that file up too much into different layers is unlikely to help with anything other than making it harder to see how it works.

I realise it's more complex than that, and some abstraction of different logical layers will help - I just want to avoid taking it to the Nth degree for the sake of it.

> Besides, can you give your opinion on sime other
> usability-related layout changes I proposed?

I haven't seen you post any.

> > 6) An interface must be implemented to allow easy translation of
> > pages, preferably without the need for the translators to know HTML.
>
> This can be done by using e.g. Wiki markup. But this will
> limit the layout possibilities.
>
> Although I don't see a big problem here: translators will not
> need to *write* HTML, but just to translate the words between tags.

That doesn't always work. Consider this text from the pgAdmin translation guidelines:
----
Some messages include %s or %d variables placeholders. During execution, %s will be replaced by a string and %d by a decimal number. Please take special care about including all %s and %d variable placeholders correctly. If you make a typo error, the application might crash. On some occasions, it might be necessary to reorder placeholders. In the following (fictive) example, both parameter positions are exchanged: 'Server %s user %s is logged in' could be translated by 'L\'utilisateur s%2$s est connecté au serveur %1$s.'.
----

The word order (and possibly the appropriate tags around those words) changes in the translation, thus the translator must understand the markup to correctly rearrange it.

> I'd also add another entry:
> 7) Robust admin interface. The current one does not offer any
> protection from user errors.

No, it doesn't (but should). That's mainly because it's lifted from the current code which is used almost entirely by Devrim, Robert & I - and we know it's limitations!

Regards, Dave.