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Re: Should PostgreSQL Europe organisation settle down in France ?

From: Oleg Bartunov <oleg(at)sai(dot)msu(dot)su>
To: Markus Schiltknecht <markus(at)bluegap(dot)ch>
Cc: damien(at)dalibo(dot)info, pgeu-general(at)postgresql(dot)org
Subject: Re: Should PostgreSQL Europe organisation settle down in France ?
Date: 2007-09-15 08:54:12
Message-ID: (view raw or whole thread)
Lists: pgeu-general

I'm for upgrading PostgreSQL-FR to PostgreSQL-EU, since this is
a real european organization. I know Jean-Paul well and trust him.

The real goal of PostgreSQL-EU is a common PostgreSQL certification
program, not a donation, t-shirts and other bla-bla-thingies.

Italian guys were very well doing PgDay-2007 in Prato and I'm also
vote to continue PgDay in the same place. It's not expensive and friendly 

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007, Markus Schiltknecht wrote:

> Hello Damien,
> thank you very much for figuring this all out. It sounds like a plan!
> damien clochard wrote:
>> The response is unanimous : they are not comfortable with the idea that the 
>> french association would "disappear". It represents for them 3 years of 
>> work : Lots of time and energy to build this user group from scratch. 
>> Changing the name and goal of the association would somewhat mess things 
>> up. Besides  the association aims to provides help to **french speaking** 
>> users, which includes Canada, West Africa, etc. etc. Obviously this is out 
>> of the scope of an European user group. 
> Very understandable.
>> By the way we still consider that the PostgreSQL Europe is a great project, 
>> but we think it would be better to have two separate entities.
>> Furthermore some of the member of the french "crew" are OK to provide help 
>> to create an European non-profit association under the french law. As i 
>> said previously it's a very common thing in France and i think this could 
>> be done within a few months.
> As you or Dimitri and Jean-Paul certainly already have experience with the 
> law and all the legal issues around non-profits in france, that make sense.
> Or does any other team have experience in its European country?
>> 1/ We need to make some kind of poll to see if creating PostgreSQL Europe 
>> under the french law is OK for every one, or if there are others 
>> possibilities.
> After all of the name-game on -advocacy, I'm not very excited about yet 
> another poll. Let's first check other options (if any) and maybe we can 
> simply reach consensus by discussion.
> AFAICT an additional association under the French law is the most reasonable 
> option so far.
>> 2/ If the "french association" proposition is accepted then we'll have to 
>> write together the legal statutes in English ( i have samples of generic 
>> statutes we can adapt to our need ). Once the statutes are written, we can 
>> translate them in every languages and propose them for acceptance. A wiki 
>> could be a good tool for all that stuff, imho.
> I'm offering help in translating to German. Although IANAL.
>> 3/ Once the statutes are accepted, we'll have to decide what will be the 
>> address of the association. I think the best idea is to locate the 
>> association in Paris . We'll also have to name 3 persons that will 
>> constitute  the "temporary Administration Board" of the association and 
>> make the official declaration to french authorities. This declaration will 
>> take a least one month to be "fully official" as french administration is 
>> not a very fast machine.
> <rant>Administration is slow per definition</rant> ;-)
> I'm fine with whatever location, but Paris sounds international. I guess 
> these three persons for the temporary Administration Board need to be French?
>> 4/ Once the the declaration is fully done, we can open membership.
>> 5/ In February 2008, we meet at FOSDEM to make the first"General Assembly" 
>> and replace the temporary Administration Board with a brand-new 
>> democratically elected one. 
> Cool, seems somewhat tight, but if you think that's doable... Certainly 
> FOSDEM is a good meeting point, no matter how far we got with legal stuff.
>> 6/ After that the administration board meetings can be made via 
>> teleconference or IRC...  However i think that meeting each other "in real 
>> life" once in a year is mandatory.
> Agreed.
>> These 6 steps are based on my experience, on PostgreSQLFr members advices 
>> and on my interview with Tristan Nitot. Surely there are other ways to do 
>> this and some of them might be better than the one i exposed. What i like 
>> with this one is that it gets us on track and focused on a deadline : 
>> FOSDEM in February. That leaves us 5 months to build this thing up :-)
> I'd say: let's work on it to make it happen!
> Regards
> Markus
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster

Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (,
Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia
Internet: oleg(at)sai(dot)msu(dot)su,
phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83

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