Re: [pgsql-www] Forums at postgresql.com.au

On 20/11/2010, at 11:52 PM, Magnus Hagander wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 12:26, Elliot Chance <elliotchance(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
>>
>> On 20/11/2010, at 9:52 PM, Magnus Hagander wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 02:57, Elliot Chance <elliotchance(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 20/11/2010, at 3:58 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Isn't that a secondary use case, though? It would be easy to solve this
>>>>
>>>> by providing a URL to the post in the forum that you can click; assuming
>>>>
>>>> the forum interface gives you the option to reply privately.
>>>>
>>>> That would pretty much make it impossible to use offline.
>>>>
>>>> That would be annoying, but I guess survivable. But how would that
>>>> work for a user that hasn't signed up for the forum? How does it
>>>> verify the sender?
>>>>
>>>> The forum uses the same confirmation as the mailing list where an email is
>>>> sent to the address and they have to click on a link to activate their
>>>> account - this very standard practice on forum software.
>>>
>>> Oh, I assumed that - you're missing my point.
>>>
>>> The point is this:
>>> Assume John Doe posts something to the list. I am reading this, and
>>> want to use "alvaros suggestion" for doing a direct response. So I
>>> click the link that was in the email. *I* am not registrered in the
>>> forums. How do I respond to his post in a safe way?
>>
>> You are registered in the forum already (it does this automatically), you simply reply on the mailing list as you have always done. If you feel the sudden urge to only reply via the forum then simply use the recover password to login and reply from there.
>
> I can't do that, since all email is sent from the same address. How
> will the forum software know which person I was trying to respond to?

One very annoying thing about Apple Mail with these lists is that when I hit reply if I don't change the To address to the mailing list or manually add the Cc then it doesn't even get sent to the mailing list. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of my posts have disappeared like that.

When you reply to an email you send it to the person your replying to and Cc the mailing list. When I send to to mailing list I direct my actual To address to the mailing list, i'm not sending these replies to any particular person.

The parser script doesn't care who the email comes from or is going to because it uses the in-reply-to field to match up the threads. So this means when you hit reply your email program will say something like this:
To: Elliot Chance <forums(at)postgresql(dot)com(dot)au>
Cc: pgsql-general(at)postgresql(dot)org

forums(at)postgresql(dot)com(dot)au is pointed to a black hole so that email disappears but the mailing list gets another copy. When the mailing list gets its copy it sends a copy to the forum (because the forum is just like a subscribed user), the parser then dissects the headers to find out where the post belongs. We already know this part works.

>
>
>>>> I did have a look
>>>> at https://github.com/mhagander/hamn/blob/master/listsync.py and I an do the
>>>> submitting the part quite easily myself but how does that activate the user
>>>> without an email being sent to them?
>>>
>>> Yeah, that's the part that needs to be added to it. But I don't see
>>> any reason that shouldn't be fairly simple - you probably just need to
>>> include a set nomail command as well.
>>
>> Using nomail still requires you to confirm your email address (I know because i've tried it.) If there were a magic value you could pass then it would defeat the purpose of having email confirmations and people would just write scripts to cheat it - like I want to do.
>
> Uh, no. Not when you're accessing the interface with the proper
> password (one that has permissions to do admin actions on the list).
> The code in that example does not require confirmation for the
> subscriptions. It does, I think, send out the "welcome to the xyz
> list" mail, but that should also be easily scriptable away.

Theres no way I'm relying on the fact that every person that signs up to the forums will be informed enough to realise that the forum is more-or-less just a front for the mailing list. If I signed up to a forum and got and email saying "welcome to the mailing list" I would think "Um, I didn't sign up to this" and unsubscribe. Now all my posts will be rejected by the mailing list and my posts will goto thin air without me ever knowing.

>
>
>>>> When you say offline I assume you mean replying to one or more threads while
>>>> not connected to the internet, then releasing your outbox when you get back
>>>> to an internet connection?
>>>
>>> Yes. For example, when on a plane or somewhere where the cell coverage is bad.
>>
>> Like I explained this is no problem. After all you still get the same problems with a pure mailing list. For example if someone posted the question "How do I insert records?" and your on a plane typing "Use INSERT ....." but before your plane lands someone else has already responded to the person. Your email will still be sent so that the person gets two answers. Just like the persons email program will rank the answers by timestamp so will posts to the forum.
>
> You are still not understanding the problem. Since I *don't have the
> users email address*, I can't send it the normal way. I have nowhere
> to send it.

Explained above, your not sending it to the person your sending it back to the mailing list. I know this works because I've been testing it with my own address like a dummy mailing list.

>
>
>>>> That's fine because all the posts are back dated
>>>> to sync with the email send time, so your replies will still appear after a
>>>> given post even if there has been more replies since then.
>>>
>>> I think you're again missing that this was a comment to Alvaros
>>> suggestion, which was the "have a link at the bottom of the email
>>> going back to the forums".
>>>
>>> And you're also missing the fact that I'm talking about doing a
>>> private response to the person who posted it, not a general
>>> to-the-list response.
>>
>> Forums and mailing lists have the same functionality they just do the same things different ways. If you want to use the mailing list you have to use it like a mailing list, if you want to use the forum then you have to use it like a forum.
>>
>> If John Doe signs up to the forum he is expecting the forum to work like a forum. When his answer is posted to the forum thread he will be notified. If in rare cases someone needs to send him a private message or email they can still do so through those features provided inside the forum software.
>
> So again, you're either not understanding the problem, or deliberately
> avoiding it.
>
> John Doe posts something to the forum.
> This gets mirrored to the mailinglist. From address is forum(at)postgresql(dot)com(dot)au
> I read this
> I want to respond to John Doe.

If you want to respond you use the Reply button.

>
> There is no way for me to reach John Doe at this point. I can reach
> the mailinglist. But I don't want to reach the mailinglist, I want to
> reach John Done.

If you want to personally reach John Doe you can use either the PM or email system in the forum - and you know how to reach him by his name. And perhaps a URL at the bottom of the email. If you just want to reply to him then i've explain that above.

>
> How do I access the forums private message feature, since I'm not
> registered in the forum software?

Again, you are registered, you have a password but you'l have to recover it the first time to be able to login to the forum to send PMs/emails etc.

>
> --
> Magnus Hagander
> Me: http://www.hagander.net/
> Work: http://www.redpill-linpro.com/