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Re: Release Candidate of the PostgreSQL Europe association statutes

From: "Joshua D(dot) Drake" <jd(at)commandprompt(dot)com>
To: Dave Page <dpage(at)postgresql(dot)org>
Cc: "Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum" <ads(at)pgug(dot)de>, gabriele(dot)bartolini(at)gmail(dot)com, damien(at)dalibo(dot)info, pgeu-general(at)postgresql(dot)org
Subject: Re: Release Candidate of the PostgreSQL Europe association statutes
Date: 2008-01-13 23:39:10
Message-ID: 478AA11E.3080800@commandprompt.com (view raw or flat)
Thread:
Lists: pgeu-general
Dave Page wrote:
> On 13/01/2008, Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum <ads(at)pgug(dot)de> wrote:
>> On Sun, Jan 13, 2008 at 02:24:39PM -0800, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>> Dave Page wrote:
>>>> On 13/01/2008, Gabriele Bartolini <gabriele(dot)bartolini(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
>>>>> Ciao Dave,
>>>> Otherwise, only the countries with no group of their own (ie. the
>>>> direct membership you propose) could vote.
>>> Why not just have individual membership in the spirit of SPI?
> 
> Because SPI is a mess?

Yes but that isn't because of the way membership is handled :). It is 
because of lack of management. If the membership committee kept up with 
the members the way they are supposed to, it isn't an issue.

What I meant was exactly the above, have a membership committee. Maybe 
that is just the executive committee (board), maybe it is separate and 
have a very simple vote structure.

I wouldn't expect the convoluted by-laws etc.. that SPI has.

> 
>> I go with this for several reasons:
>>
>> - Why should someone be blocked if he wants to be member in both groups?
> 
> For what purpose? If both groups offer end user services such as
> newletters and local events, then they are by definition in
> competition. If they do it all together, why would I pay twice for the
> same thing (even if one membership were free)? Would I get 2 copies of
> the same newsletter etc?

I think the key Dave is trying to get at is the payment itself. You 
shouldn't have to pay to be a member of a PostgreSQL community 
organization. You should have a nominal expectation of participation though.

> 
>> - What about elections, does a country like france now has one
>> single vote or has every .fr member a vote for eu elections?
> 
> One simple answer is that PostgreSQLFr pay a small percentage of each
> members fee for a group membership in PG-EU. Their board are then
> awarded that number of votes in PG-EU matters.

That sounds dangerous. Consider a user group that has more money than 
another. You are allowing money to talk and are likely going to alienate 
people.

IMO, each recognized member of each PUG gets exactly one vote.

> 
> I can only see this working effectively if PG-EU operates for users
> where there is no regional group, and as an umbrella organisation
> where there are. Otherwise there will always be the chance of
> confusion, competition, duplication of effort and so on.

+1

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


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Subject: Re: Release Candidate of the PostgreSQL Europe association statutes
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