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Re: Want to add to contrib.... xmldbx

From: "Jonah H(dot) Harris" <jonah(dot)harris(at)gmail(dot)com>
To: Mark Woodward <pgsql(at)mohawksoft(dot)com>
Cc: Andrew Dunstan <andrew(at)dunslane(dot)net>, pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org
Subject: Re: Want to add to contrib.... xmldbx
Date: 2006-01-29 20:12:11
Message-ID: 36e682920601291212r45859941v1a49a2693b948465@mail.gmail.com (view raw or flat)
Thread:
Lists: pgsql-hackerspgsql-patches
On 1/29/06, Mark Woodward <pgsql(at)mohawksoft(dot)com> wrote:
>
> I generally agree as well, but.....
>
> I think there is always a balance between "out of the box" vs
> "extensibility." I think integration and extensibility is fantastic for
> addaptation of your product, but "oobe" (out of box experience) is
> important for those you want to target.


Unlike MySQL, PostgreSQL does not target one audience (i.e. the "low-end").
PostgreSQL targets various groups (scientific, enterprise, hobby, OLTP, ...)
which means that providing a nice OOBE for each of these targets would bloat
the main distribution.  No one feels that your project isn't a good one, we
just suggest that moving it to a pgfoundy project would be a better idea.

By all practical measure PostgreSQL is miles ahead of MySQL, but MySQL
> wins because it is the defacto PHP database. PostgreSQL does not target
> PHP in any real sense, I am proposing adding this extension to change
> that.


In most PHP applications I've seen, MySQL wins only because it is the
developer's default database.  Likewise, most PHP/MySQL-only applications
are generally poorly designed and developed.  To this day, I know of no
specific features in MySQL that make it a nicer database for PHP.

Having a PHP serializer that hooks up to the database in a usable way,
> IMHO, makes a strong link between the two.


I agree that it's a nice project, but how many people use PostgreSQL with
languages other than PHP?  A language-specific extension would, IMHO, need
to have a real good reason to be included in the main distribution.

This is the classic chicken and the egg thing that kills a potentially
> great idea.


Unfortunately, this can be said for everything.  However, in the end this
thinking does tend to kill more bad ideas than good ones.

Step back and ask yourself "is it something you see as valuable." If you
> answer no, then there is no point in dicussing it anymore. If you answer
> "yes," then consider the PHP admin who wants to be able to accomplish what
> this provides. The PHP guy will be used to MySQL and not know anything
> about PostgreSQL, wouldn't making the barrier to entry lower make sense?


Yes, the project is a great idea.  I would surely like to see it in a
pgfoundry project.  I also wish we also had a better PostgreSQL developer
tools area on the website which would list these types of projects for PHP,
C, C++, .NET, Java, ...

If it is a "good idea" then, making it easier to do makes sense.


If I were you, I'd just create a pgfoundry project which includes the
contrib module and a few examples.

I wrote it so it could be in the contrib with nothing but expat (which
> most systems have.)


We've encountered issues like this with readline, crypt, etc. and I know of
several Linux distros which do not include expat.  Likewise, I don't recall
ever seeing expat on Solaris or Windows in a non-application-specific
installation.

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