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Re: WIP fix proposal for bug #6123

From: Robert Haas <robertmhaas(at)gmail(dot)com>
To: Florian Pflug <fgp(at)phlo(dot)org>
Cc: Kevin Grittner <Kevin(dot)Grittner(at)wicourts(dot)gov>, pgsql-hackers(at)postgresql(dot)org
Subject: Re: WIP fix proposal for bug #6123
Date: 2011-08-03 17:27:21
Message-ID: CA+Tgmob2JLPC+Ct0kAFHVebSSiPnkkKGk=Vtp5L20GuUvGa4Pg@mail.gmail.com (view raw or flat)
Thread:
Lists: pgsql-hackers
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Florian Pflug <fgp(at)phlo(dot)org> wrote:
> Going down that road opens the door to a *lot* of subtle semantic
> differences between currently equivalent queries. For example,
>
>  UPDATE T SET f=f, a=1
>
> would behave differently then
>
>  UPDATE T SET a=1
>
> because in the first case the new row would depend on the old row's
> value of "f", while in the second case it doesn't.

True.  But I'm not really bothered by that.  If the user gets an error
message that says:

ERROR: updated column "f" has already been modified by a BEFORE trigger

...the user will realize the error of their ways.

>> There's no way to get the
>> same result as if you'd done either one of them first, because they
>> are inextricably intertwined.
>>
>> In practice, my hand-wavy reference to "reconciling the updates" is a
>> problem because of the way the trigger interface works.  It feels
>> pretty impossible to decide that we're going to do the update, but
>> with some other random values we dredged up from some other update
>> replacing some of the ones the user explicitly handed to us.  But if
>> the trigger could return an indication of which column values it
>> wished to override, then it seems to me that we could piece together a
>> reasonable set of semantics.  It's not exactly clear how to make that
>> work, though.
>
> I dunno, that all still feels awfully complex. As you said yourself,
> this case is quite similar to a serialization anomaly. Taking that
> correspondence further, that reconciliation of updates is pretty much
> what the EPQ machinery does in READ COMMITTED mode. Now, we ourselves
> have warned users in the past to *not* use READ COMMITTED mode if they
> do complex updates (e.g., use UPDATE ... FROM ...), because the behaviour
> of that reconciliation machinery in the present of concurrent updates
> is extremely hard to predict. I thus don't believe that it's a good idea
> to introduce similarly complex behaviour in other parts of the system -
> and particularly not if you cannot disable it by switching to another
> isolation level.
>
> Simply throwing an error, on the other hand, makes the behaviour simple
> to understand and explain.

True.  I'm coming around to liking that behavior better than I did on
first hearing, but I'm still not crazy about it, because as an app
developer I would really like to have at least the unproblematic cases
actually work.  Throwing an error at least makes it clear that you've
done something which isn't supported, and that's probably an
improvement over the current, somewhat-baffling behavior.  However,
it's not even 25% as nice as having it actually work as intended.
That's why, even if we can't make all the cases work sanely, I'd be a
lot more enthusiastic about it if we could find a way to make at least
some of them work sanely.  The mind-bending cases are unlikely to be
the ones people do on purpose.

-- 
Robert Haas
EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company

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