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Re: Presenting groups

From: "Dave Page" <dpage(at)pgadmin(dot)org>
To: "Jean-Paul Argudo" <jean-paul(at)postgresqlfr(dot)org>
Cc: "Koen Martens" <gmc(at)sonologic(dot)nl>, "PostgreSQL EU General" <pgsql-eu-general(at)postgresql(dot)org>
Subject: Re: Presenting groups
Date: 2008-07-17 13:14:23
Message-ID: 937d27e10807170614k5fcfe06bw99dd939e669bdbcc@mail.gmail.com (view raw or flat)
Thread:
Lists: pgeu-general
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Jean-Paul Argudo
<jean-paul(at)postgresqlfr(dot)org> wrote:

>> The only groups we have other than -core and funds are
>> ones where there is a distinct need for people we trust highly - eg.
>> committers and sysadmins.
>
> I don't think -core, committers or even sysadmins organised everything.

Exactly my point. *Most* things are organised by the community as a whole.

> They surely do great job at coding matters, but without local groups,
> there wouldn't be so many pgDays, PG Conferences and others events.

I'm not saying we won't have groups working on things, what I'm saying
is that an Open Source project such as our does not lend itself to
organised and well specified groups as you seem to be suggesting. Take
the goodies group for example. There are, say, 6 people, one of whom
is a leader. Does that mean someone not in the group isn't able to
help out? How would a new volunteer join in? PostgreSQL thrives on
keeping everything open, and intentionally tries to avoid running the
project by committee wherever possible.

> This community has to understand, IMHO, that we all need each other. PG
> Eu is just an effort to help local groups and synchronize efforts as we
> don't reinvent the wheel each time in each country.

I think we're all aware of that - some of us have been working on the
project for 10 years or more.

> So if you're suggesting that we all should work on everything at the
> same time, I think pgsql-eu-general may be a big mess in a few.

No, I'm suggesting that we organise into groups that work on specific
tasks but are open for anyone to participate.

> I think cutting in small groups, with skilled persons for the domain is
> way better than having everyone trolling on everything on every single
> idea.

Maybe, in a company. But this is an open source project where openness
is everything.

>> Sometimes these some bike-shedding admittedly, but I think the freedom
>> in the way we work more than makes up for that.
>
> Don't make me say things I did not say. Everyone is free to help. I just
> said we may need some "Internal Rules", as every group of human beings have.

Please don't accuse me of putting words in your mouth. I was stating
that there is sometime bike shedding in the PostgreSQL community which
*I* believe, although sometimes frustrating, is better than working in
closed groups.

> The only rules I spoke about is about creating dedicated groups in some
> fields and how a group is organized. Im affraid that if we don't decide
> to have a "leader" in each group, we won't do things as fast as we could.

I agree with having people act as leaders in each area. They need ot
be decision makers, and be able to lead discussions which go off
track.

-- 
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com

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