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Re: We should get active ...

From: Susanne Ebrecht <miracee(at)miracee(dot)de>
To: Jean-Paul Argudo <jean-paul(at)postgresqlfr(dot)org>
Cc: Cédric Villemain <cedric(dot)villemain(at)dalibo(dot)com>,damien(at)dalibo(dot)info, pgeu-general(at)postgresql(dot)org
Subject: Re: We should get active ...
Date: 2008-02-26 11:02:31
Message-ID: 47C3F1C7.70008@miracee.de (view raw or flat)
Thread:
Lists: pgeu-general
Jean-Paul Argudo schrieb:
> Hi,
>
>   
>> But think about the future and to a http://www.postgresql.eu/de/ or
>> http://www.postgresql.eu/fr/ or http://www.postgresql.eu/it/ or
>> http://www.postgresql.eu/se/ or whatever make sense.
>>     
>
> This really doesn't make sense to me. We're PostgreSQL Europe, we
> already have some local groups with their own website. Having such other
> websites in local languages will only add confusion to the public.
>
> I may accept such a /local/ web page only to those few countries in
> Europe that doesn't have *yet* their local group. To me, one of our
> goals is to help such countries to settle their local group, then we
> could act as a support entity to them, providing not only goodies but
> also experience, fundings, howto and the *most important*: friendship.
>
> Thats what I'd like as a content in our website... I'll expose it really
> soon to the list for discussion.
>   

Jean Paul,

it makes no sense at the moment. But consider the future. Looking to 
other projects (i.e. debian, freebsd), they have translated web pages. 
Postgresql.org is only English that's ok for me but that doesn't mean, 
that this page will not be translated into French, German or Japanese 
one future day. I guess, the reason, that it is only English at the 
moment is the fact that nobody has time or motivation to translate it.

We don't have to translate it but it could be possible in the future.

On the other side, you are right, we don't need it for the beginning and 
we could think about that, when there is a guy who really wants to 
translate it.

>> I would say, to protect ourselves from stupid users we should avoid
>> wiki/forums. 
>>     
>
> I'll bet you had a bad time just before writing this e-mail, right?
>
> Do you frankly think any of us is a "stupid user" ?
>
> Surely not, hey?
>   

No, I didn't have had a bad day. I made lots of bad experiences with 
wiki/forums. The way users get access and can read all stuff is too easy.

>   
>> Also it seems, that Europeans are master of long threads.
>>     
>
> Please stop generalizing this way with origins of people participating
> in our community. I really can understand if some of us finishes really
> upset with such comments...
>   

Hey, I just kidded.

>   
>> I don't want to have such a long thread like this "Design of Italian
>> T-Shirts" at a wiki.
>>     
>
> This is not an acceptable argument.
>
> More over about "the Italians" as you may say. Prato (and other guys
> from other cities there) just did *AWESOME* for their *FIRST* pgday ever.
>
> If they had to discuss hours about the design of their logo, the color
> of the scarf of the lady attending or whatever thingy... _I really don't
> mind_. Just because the _result_ was there. Thats the only thing I will
> remember... after their infinite kindness.
>   

I think you missed this thread. It also was just meant kidded. The 
Italian T-shirt discussion thread was the longest thread, that I ever 
have seen. The Italians just wanted to inform us how the T-shirts look 
like (the design already were finished at this moment) and the thread 
ends up in a discussion of "can I see blue elephants of a back of a blue 
shirt in a distance of 1km?"
It was a funny thread, it wasn't an annoying thread.

>   
>> Also I have to less knowledge about wiki and access
>> controlling.
>> It shouldn't be so easy for everybody to read our internal stuff.
>>     
>
> We have nothing to hide. Be sure the wiki will have an Open Source
> license for its content. I'll suggest something like a Creative Common
> share alike, but this is not really yet the moment to talk about it.
>
> Recent discussions at PG-Certification shows that (most) people agree on
> this kind of license for a wiki.
>
>   
>> It's ok, when somebody read the archive (he has to know, how to find the
>> stuff there). Think to donation reports that the leaders will make every
>> quartal or every year. I don't want this numbers at a wiki, where
>> everybody easily can read how many money we have.
>>     
>
> I really don't understand your point. We're Open Source. Open as Open.
>
> I have really no problem to post how much money we have or ever will have.
>
> PostgreSQLFr shows it in its wiki
> (http://wiki.postgresqlfr.org/doku.php/ag_du_30_janvier_2008 , chapter 4)
>
> Even Josuah D. Drake posted on some lists what PostgreSQL has in the
> bankroll at SPI (well, main numbers).
>
> Why PostgreSQL Europe would hide it ??
>   

I think, you miss understood me here. Of course there is nothing to hide 
and of course we are open source. But when you tell on a wiki, that we 
just have 20 Euro or that we have -1000 Euro (because we just bought new 
elephants) will occur that users think we will stop the project. Also we 
will get hundreds of bad comments.

Consider, usually such reports are for one quarter of a year and of 
course you have quarters where the money will be less or minus. The same 
with a positive result. We could get bad comments, when we have 1000 
Euro. Because we are not allowed to make gain.

We will get stupid and bad comments too, when we post it on a mailing 
list. But this occurs rarely, because you have to find the mailing list 
first. In Germany also this comments are usually from the same persons 
on the list.
On a wiki everybody can see it very quickly and can reference to it very 
quickly. Stupid journalists (there are lots of stupid journalists) will 
find it and push it up that PG isn't able to make a senseful accounting 
for donations or some other bad comments. Ususally they don't make 
useful comments like: "PG is poor, please donate money".


Susanne

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